thephoenix - Johnny Ronan


All we can do is to proceed in good concience - if others cannot or will not do likewise then it will not be because we didn’t try.


You’re missing the point completely.

The likes of Liam Carroll, Simon Kelly and Seanie Fitzpatrick are being put out of business entirely. Johnny Ronan isn’t, he’s simply transferring all the crud, and keeping the good bits.

I dont believe for one second that Sean Fitzpatrick has been wiped out to the tune of just 5k EUR like the Government wants you believe. J Ronan is just doing what alot of these guys have been doing for 2-3 years now. Take all the cashflow from their businesses (rents, sell off good assets in the UK etc), pay themselves large bonuses etc to help them maintain the lifestyle they feel they deserve, repay no interest or debt. Transfer everything they can to offshore accounts, their Wifes name, their Childrens names, their Dogs name.
Leave Nama with Vehicles full of debt, no cash and the crud they couldnt sell.

The fact is the government has been too slow in moving in on these guys. They have stripped the companies bare. The tax-payer is left with growing liabilities, little cashflows and the sh1tty assets
Irish Capitalism at its best!


Again, you’re lost in the numbers.

Seanie Fitz is going from €100 million-odd to €1-5 million. He’s hanging onto a few million which I’m not saying it’s right, but he has lost almost everything. Johnny Ronan on the other hand is being allowed to hang onto the best bits of his billion-Euro company, while leaving a billion or so of the shite to be transferred to NAMA.


Maybe his companies and bank loans are structured in a way that allows him to do this. If so, then why wouldnt he? Most people would.
Its not much different to a Private Equity Firm bankrupting its businesses that fail and IPO’ing those that are winners.
If its all above board, then the people to blame are those that lent the money on terms allowing this kind of fine-tuning.


Seanie Fitz gets to keep 1-5 million and that means losing everything? Its not what you started with that counts but rather what you are left with. 1-5 million quid in anyone’s book is a very nice wedge.


Feck the lawyers

I favour private debt collection on behalf of the state outsourced to eastern europe




I would *love *to see that

  • another 1, Merchant of Venice Style and take a pound of flesh. :wink:


McQueen Said

If this is the case that he can do this then fine but it shouldnt stop the people of the state from pursuing him through the courts in whatever country for the value of the bad debts transferred to NAMA anywhere on the planet irrespective of whose name the money is in.

Oh and by the way if we’re having a collection to go after some of this shit in the courts count me in to make a donation.


Dream on. Who says Liam Carroll is gone out of business !!!

Seanie retired with a massive golden handshake.
Anglo and all senior management still in place.


Sunday, 28 March 2010
Carroll’s offices aimed at BoI staff approved
Liam Carroll’s development vehicle Danninger, which is in receivership following a move by AIB, has been given the go-ahead for a huge office complex in Dublin’s north docks which was originally targeted as a back office for Bank of Ireland. About 8,000 people would have been based in the building if a deal had been agreed.

The developer had tried to woo the bank to the north docks as part of his plan for a domestic financial services centre which would have involved new offices being developed for Anglo Irish Bank, AIB and Bank of Ireland. He spent €250m buying up land for the plan. In the end construction commenced only on the block earmarked for Anglo before the developer’s empire collapsed.

The Anglo block is unfinished due to a planning dispute. It has been before An Bord Pleanála for 14 months and the board has yet to make a decision on its validity. If it rules against it, the building may be demolished.

Before development can take place on the site originally earmarked for BoI, a fee of €3.7m will have to be paid to Dublin City Council and another €770,000 will have to be paid towards the Metro North project.

The plan for three interconnected office blocks and a landscaped park was approved by the council subject to standard conditions.

Carroll’s talks with AIB Capital Markets at the time involved a plan to raise the height of a building planned for the site to 110 metres, nearly twice the height of Liberty Hall.


It’s amazing the 1.5 million is all we hear regarding Seanie, and not the substantial assets now “owned” by members of his family.

Nice touch of PR with the old vw golf


Frank McDonald unleashes on Johnny Ronan and his tower at Tara Street. Bord Pleanala didn’t just override Dublin’s planners, they tore up the rule book (or Minister Murphy did it for them) Remember when the National Children’s Hospital was refused permission for a tower on the Mater site?


Frank McDonald doesn’t want suburban sprawl, and he doesn’t want to build up. Like many of his type he is against everything and for very little.


We can’t have it both ways in Dublin. Either high rise is the way to go due to lack of development space or we accept that the City will just keep spreading outwards. The planned building by JR is not that obtrusive from the pictures though whether it end up like that is another matter.
Why can’t we just designate an area for high rise like most other Cities?


In fairness, Frank McDonald is not an habitual naysayer; for example he has never criticized the high rise buildings on the Docklands nor in the suburbs. This site on Tara Street is highly sensitive because it is between the Liffey, with the Custom House, on one side and Trinity College on the other. There are a number of sites being developed nearby, including the old Hawkins house and Apollo house. If they are allowed the same height, we will have Manhattan overshadowing Dublin’s historic centre.


Actually I was going to make this point, he did critique it and it was that they were not tall enough!

If I remember it correctly it was founded on the spatial truth that going higher means you don’t need to use as much of the ground foot print. This doesn’t seem to resonate with anyone in Ireland.

The Docklands site was so massive, his point was easy to make, but I don’t remember anyone else making it - basically they squandered it’s spatial potential more than they probably even understood, such is the ignorance of process thinking.

He probably would have also liked it because it would have offset the hight-rise pressure away from the historic centre to a mainly former de-gassed industrial zone. It would have stood almost as an island of Shadows and Tall Trees (former neighbour Bono might have written a follow up tune…) since so much of that site is surrounded by wide open water on opposing sides, being either the Liffey or Grand Canal dock, creating grand spatial flat zones that will never be anything other than water and air, utterly negating any high-rise nimby-ism for infinity.

If Frank was only ever right on one thing, then this was his most important one thing.

A quick guess, the Dockland site is probably anything from as low as 30% under utilised and maybe as high as 60-80%!

IMHO the planning system has retarded so much development and economic activity while promoting all the wrong activity as a matter of course, the end result being the economic loss of growth and stability for future generations oft just Dublin City Centre but Ireland, that would have negate the terrible effects of the property collapse a good deal is alone, mind-boggling, but even worse, it remains more or less unreformed or truly acknowledged, extra mind-boggly!

The last thing I saw a few years back in Dublin City was a lot of hoopla about Smart City this and Smart City that and shuffling of people from one area / projects to the latest sexy project, leading a lot o hard work tp sit on the rather volumes pile of previous hard work to withering and due.

Once more mediocrity paid cosy sub-urban-ite planners and city official; who zoom in and zoom out each day with the refuge of an underground private carpark facility at the level of the most ancient centre of the history city.

There seems to be a a touch of boredom and I could-have-been-something mixed in with political ADHD that seems to grip the minds of the middle and higher political and process managers across the land medicated mainly with above average public sector salaries that would make president of nuclear powers blush.


A bold defence of the Tara Tower from James Ronan, Manager for the development company Tanat. He argues that

The narrative here is not that a tall building has been approved – it is that a building in full compliance with Dublin City Council’s Local Area Plan was rejected – twice – by Dublin City Council.

Ronan also defends the absence of housing in the tower:

Mr McDonald notes there will be no residential element to the scheme. This is entirely consistent with its zoning, a fact which Mr McDonald unhelpfully omits to state.

Ronan is on much weaker ground when he talks about

new and inspiring architecture