There is a Household Income Crisis Out There

[BoyRacer]

There is a Household Income Crisis Out There - → trueeconomics.blogspot.co.uk … ncome.html

Irish League of Credit Unions have published their Q4 2014 survey yesterday. Some very interesting results overall (see full release here: creditunion.ie/communication … 698,en.php)

• 1.76 million of adults (51% of total adult population in Ireland) have less than EUR100 left in disposable income each month after key bills and taxes are paid. This means that de facto, more than 1/2 of Irish adults have not enough money left every year to cover a mild dental emergency or child’s braces.
• 730,000 of working adults in the country (41% of working adult population) have less than EUR100 left at the end of the month. This means that for an average household with 2 working adults, assuming no emergency demands on their funds, a saving of 10% downpayment on an average (nationwide) house will require 9.6 years worth of savings.
• A person aged around 35-40 should be saving around EUR350-400/month to cover pension top up, as well as to provide some cushion for emergencies. Only 632,000 people in the country currently can afford such a ‘luxury’ - only 21% of our adult population. Of working adults, only 427,000 (24%) can afford reasonable pensions and insurance savings cover.
• 37% of adults in this country cannot afford (regularly) to pay their bills in full every month. This is up on 32% a year ago and up on 31% in August 2014 survey.
• In Q4 2013, 90% of Irish adults said they either occasionally or regularly rinding themselves in a position of not being able to cover their monthly bills. In Q4 2014 survey, this number rose to 92%.
• The survey results largely confirm the trends in household deposits recorded by the Central Bank of Ireland.

there is more

[What_Goes_Up]

Great interview with 3 hard-pressed working women (and a superfluous Charlie Weston) yesterday on Marian Finucane:

rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplay … type=radio

Perfectly encapsulates the above.

[Eschatologist]

Constantin writes that “This means that de facto, more than 1/2 of Irish adults have not enough money left every year to cover a mild dental emergency or child’s braces.”

And yet 74% of those surveyed spend money on “Take-Away/Eat Out”.

There’s a lot of conflation between “costs” and “expenditure”. For instance:

“The Groceries / food / going out costs category has increased by €8 euro per month from €497 in August to €505 in November 2014. Grocery costs in particular for families have increased by €16 per month from €344 in August to €360 in November”

So almost 30% of that spending is completely discretionary, but it’s still a “cost”.

These surveys are a Rorschach test.

[FirstBass]

I kind of agree. But… having a pet without insurance is a recipe for massive financial & emotional strain if the pet gets seriously ill; it’s good to give a few euros to the kids to teach them the value of money and some independence; without some sort of social life, you are reduced to a mere existence, working to pay bills, working in the home to cook and clean.

If half the population struggle to afford these very basic ‘luxuries’ then something is not right

[ex-Patrick]

@FirstBass

I kind of agree. But… having a pet without insurance is a recipe for massive financial & emotional strain if the pet gets seriously ill; it’s good to give a few euros to the kids to teach them the value of money and some independence; without some sort of social life, you are reduced to a mere existence, working to pay bills, working in the home to cook and clean.

If half the population struggle to afford these very basic ‘luxuries’ then something is not right

+1

[macannrb]

@Barney Gumble

A pet may be nice, but it is not ‘essential’. Insuring said pet…well where do you draw the line?

I think that is the point of this. We have brought a lot of wants into our routine purchases, and we now confuse them with needs.

Once something is routine, and classed as a need, the company behind it will increase the amount of money they get out of you. Or they work out how to reduce the price - retaining/increasing margin - and get you to buy more of it.

[Homeboy]

Let me put it another way:

The cost of living in Ireland is exorbitant.

[Eschatologist]

@FirstBass

If half the population struggle to afford these very basic ‘luxuries’ then something is not right

Well 100,000 people aren’t even paying their mortgages.

I just don’t trust the credit unions to conduct this sort of survey objectively.

[slasher]

@Eschatologist

I just don’t trust the credit unions to conduct this sort of survey objectively.

surely you’d expect this to have a knock on effect on companies dependent on discretionary spending?

rte.ie/news/business/2014/02 … nos-pizza/
“Domino’s Pizza makes strong start to 2014 as profit edges higher”

independent.ie/business/iris … 45754.html
“Domino’s Pizza franchisee sizzling with €4.2m profits”

independent.ie/business/iris … 11490.html

etc etc

I guess other 49% are really stepping up to the plate spending wise

[Joe-Levity]

Well the official pin solution to everything is clearly needed here: deep reductions in the tax bills of millionaires plus massive cuts to front-line health spending.

[FirstBass]

There has been an increase in those saying they ‘cannot afford to pay their bills’ compared to other tracker waves. 37% put off paying their essential bill on time each month. This represents an increase from 31% in August 2014.

Of this group, the majority (97% - down from 99% in August 2014) have to sacrifice spending in other areas to pay their essential bills - areas like health insurance (33%) and food (27%) and second car (22%) have all suffered. Of non-essential items – holidays (75%), nights out (77%) and clothing and footwear (71%), are the most sacrificed items.

A number of changes have taken place in the monthly essential bill categories in the period between August 2014 and November 2014.

They list Nights Out as non-essential here

The paragraph introducing Essential Bills:

Essential Bills

There has been an increase in monthly household utilities, transport costs, groceries, gas, mobile phone and internet bills from August 2014 figures

This has resulted in an increase in those saying they ‘cannot afford to pay their bills’ on time every month compared to other tracker waves

Credit card payments, car insurance payments and child related costs are all down year on year.

I think they are actually distinguishing themselves between essential and non-essential household bills, but lumping all the potential costs for household into the tables in the report, whether they are essential or not.

You could argue that phone and internet are not essential but that’s pretty harsh in the modern world.

[FirstBass]

They are not doing their credibility any good as a result!

[Negative_Covenant]

@What Goes Up...

Great interview with 3 hard-pressed working women (and a superfluous Charlie Weston) yesterday on Marian Finucane:
rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplay … type=radio
Perfectly encapsulates the above.

+1 - I could not imagine three men being able to be so honest about being in such difficult financial circumstances despite running their own businesses.

[iguana]

@FirstBass

without some sort of social life, you are reduced to a mere existence, working to pay bills, working in the home to cook and clean.

That’s true but a social life doesn’t have to cost money. For a family with young children packing up some sandwiches and taking a walk by the river with a detour to a nearby playground is a great day out and all it costs you is for the lunch you’d have been eating anyway. Sitting on my couch, watching a terrible but guilty pleasure tv show while I crochet a novelty hat is immensely pleasurable. Not entirely free as it uses electricity and wool but I guess I could sell the hat to cover my costs if I needed to. Takeaways are mostly fairly overrated as the food is often a bit shit but sitting down to a family meal and a chat with the people I love is certainly not what I’d describe as merely existing.

I enjoy lots of things that cost money. I like being able to take my son to soft play places, going for nice meals every now and then, meeting friends for coffee, etc. But those things are just gravy and if I couldn’t afford them, I would still be able to have a full, happy life. It’s living without both security and people/animals to care about that makes life more existence than living. But most people have been convinced that unnecessary material goods are essential for happiness and that is a recipe for misery.

[Longtermrenter]

Every other weekend the wife and kids and myself go out and do something then have a McDonalds or pizza or whatever.
Last weekend our car was in the garage getting a leak in the cooling system fixed so we were unable to venture far. We went for a walk in a nearby park, then had a “house picnic” on the living room floor. The kids thought it was awesome fum, now they want to have a “house picnic” this weekend too! Kind of puts it all in perspective for me.

[nearlyirish]

@Mantissa

@iguana

I enjoy lots of things that cost money. I like being able to take my son to soft play places, going for nice meals every now and then, meeting friends for coffee, etc. But those things are just gravy and if I couldn’t afford them, I would still be able to have a full, happy life.

+1

BTW if you can get your kids into it, the Natural History Museum, the National Gallery and the National Museum of Archeology are great, around the corner from each other and completely free (for the moment). I am aware that not all kids are partial to museums, but it’s worth a try.

Totally agree. time and time again my kids seem to enjoy best all the things that cost little or no money. trip into town to watch buskers and then visit natural history museum proved immensely popular last week.

Picnics of any fashion also a firm favourite, as free pass to get mucky or wet at beach/woods/ etc.

[Dubhgeannain]

This thread has gone all warm any fuzzy

No “crisis” here either. It’s tough to put anything aside for deposit saving some months* and the uncertainty of a massive rent hike next next year or worse having to find a new rental looms like a grey cloud. But that cloud is only on the horizon and we know how predictable Irish weather is. The sun is shining at the moment and baby number two is due early January.

*Can add private maternity consultancy costs to the list of expensive stuff in Ireland

[nearlyirish]

@Dubhgeannain

This thread has gone all warm any fuzzy

No “crisis” here either. It’s tough to put anything aside for deposit saving some months* and the uncertainty of a massive rent hike next next year or worse having to find a new rental looms like a grey cloud. But that cloud is only on the horizon and we know how predictable Irish weather is. The sun is shining at the moment and baby number two is due early January.

*Can add private maternity consultancy costs to the list of expensive stuff in Ireland

must be that friday feeling

Congrats on #2!

[Dubhgeannain]

@Barney Gumble

@Dubhgeannain

*Can add private maternity consultancy costs to the list of expensive stuff in Ireland

Can’t remember the total cost of a pregnancy in Belgium, but seeing the consultant (whose clinic is 5 minutes walk) cost about €50 a pop, including nice/amazing 3D ultrasounds of the baby which we could email to friends and family. Said sprog has a cold and hasn’t slept well the last few nights, so we made an appointment with our paediatrician (ten minute walk - we were fussy) this morning, saw her this afternoon, and I’ll get 80% of the €45 it cost back from my health insurer within a week.

North of 3.5k for us

[slasher]

@Dubhgeannain

North of 3.5k for us

I’ve heard worse - but a lot better too all within the same hospital] - and it didn’t correlate with experience or “prestige”