Tracker mortgages scandal - but who are the culprits?


#1

irishtimes.com/opinion/fint … -1.3263066

Strange that the Pin has no separate thread on trackers.

FOT wants criminal charges brought against the bank but he knows it won’t happen: the Anglo-Irish trials show that our criminal courts can’t handle financial crime.

But what crime was committed?

Creating these mortgages put a timebomb under the banks but now the banks are berated because they tried to wriggle out of them. The mortgage contracts gave the banks many escape hatches, especially if the borrower missed a payment.

Of course, it SuperMario reverses gears, the tracker brigade will be clamouring for a new deal.

So, do Pinsters want compensation for everyone who lost their tracker?


#2

Yes.

The Banks need a good hard kick in the hole that will really put manners on them,The CB and Regulators are as inept as they were before the Banking crash.

What I find hilarious is this has been unfolding since 2009 and its been treated like its only happened in the last 6 months.

I took ICS as they were to the Ombudsman in 2010 for removal of a tracker and I won.The advice I received off the Fin Regulator at the time was to forget about it.Fucking clowns


#3

Fair dues!

But you seem to be one of a small minority. Did the majority lack your persistence?
rte.ie/news/2017/1018/91315 … mortgages/


#4

It was actually 2 tracker mortgages and I had confirmation in writing from ICS when I initially fixed that I would roll back onto trackers because I know what thieving c##ts they are.
My first port of call when they tried to stick me on a variable,was to the Fin Regulator, the rep I spoke to one the phone was emphatic that I had no case to take.His view was that if they were no longer doing then how could I expect to get one after fixing.
This was explained to me in the manner of an adult explaiming potty training to a 3 year old.
I imagine many others were met with this fucking halfwit when they rang up looking for guidance.


#5

You were smart to get it in writing - I doubt many did.

After the Pat Neary fiasco, financial regulation was brought back into the Central Bank whose main job is to protect the banks so no surprise they tried to fob you off.

Now let’s see who can take on the banks.


#6

I heard a woman on the Six One news talking about Permanent TSB. Listening to her and the other stories about the state of their inaction on resolving their loans it just amazes me that Masdig still have a job.


#7

The majority of cases are where people weren’t restored onto trackers to which they were entitled after a fixed interest period. Yes, a crime was committed – the banks knowingly reneged on the mortgage contracts. (The wussy Ombudsman / Central Bank say they can’t be sure about the “knowingly” bit, seemingly believing the banks might have all made the same “mistake” with thousands of customers all around the same time).

For anyone who doubts the seriousness of this, Padraig Kissane who has championed this cause over on AAM was on The Plank on Newstalk the other day. He related some of the responses he got from people whose trackers he got back. They varied from “now I can finally afford to educate my child” to “I’m only here because the rope snapped”.

Apart from the fact that people may have actually died, others have definitely lost their homes because of these shenanigans. Agree with Rimbaud – those cunts in the banks will not sit up and take notice until some of them do serious jail time. Won’t happen in Ireland of course.

If they were entitled to it, damn right!


#8

Truely incredible. In a decent country the banks should be charged with financial fraud. A number of banks circa 2011 were persistently ringing people trying to convince them to move from tracker to variable/io some cock and bull story of how they would be better off. Scum of the earth.


#9

breakingnews.ie/ireland/bank … ach-810857

Taoiseach calls for compensation by Christmas.

“98% of people who wrongfully had their trackers taken off them have had them restored, but less than half of people have been compensated, and that’s not good enough.”

Paschal Donohoe will grill the bankers next week but will he remind them that he’s their largest shareholder?


#10

Obviously the banks are ####s but isn’t a part of this clusterfuck due to the fact that enforcing a straight forward contract is so difficult and expensive due to the inept judicial system. It’s the mirror image of banks trying to enforce security on a mortgage. The banks clearly know that Irish judges are financially illiterate idiots


#11

That’s a bit hand wavy. This is nothing to do with enforcing contracts through the courts.

However, one of the reasons that repos have been problematic is that the banks are useless at almost everything, including preparing paperwork for the courts. Have you ever met anyone in retail banking who isn’t an idiot? I haven’t. And I don’t just mean front office.


#12

Who was on Morning Ireland from FG this morning?

It was painful. “Yeah, we’re going to ask them very firmly to be nice and stay nice, and if that doesn’t work then we have a range of options on the table”.

Do they not understand that company management is required by law to put the interests of its shareholders first? Not the customers, or the public good. That’s a basic underpinning of modern capitalism.

Split the regulator, enable class actions (or state with authority why that would have be net negative), threaten to withdraw banking licences. It’s not complicated.

This is the do-nothing government of the do-nothing party. DVT must be a strong risk given the amount of time they spend sitting on their hands.


#13

irishtimes.com/news/politic … -1.3265049

‘Radical options
A Fine Gael Minister said that Ministers had discussed “radical options” including seeking the removal of bank chief executives.
Sources close to Taoiseach Leo Varadkar’s office said a new generation of politicians needed to show it would deal with the banks differently."


#14

Is it clear cut that every person who had a tracker but switched to a fixed rate to avoid rate rises is entitled to go back onto a tracker once the fixed period ends? And if so, was it to be at the unprofitable ECB +0.75% type tracker that was on offer? Or would it be a tracker @ ECB +4%?

I think a cohort of the people impacted by this might find that “compo by crimbo” won’t help them out, when the detail of the contracts are examined.


#15

For some it was. I knew someone who had a tracker, then fixed and was supposed to revert back to his old ECB +0.x. PTSB tried to shaft him but he had a some legal training (not actually a lawyer)… he wouldn’t have fixed in the first place if it meant giving up his tracker so it was crystal clear. PTSB made him sign a confidentiality clause

Someone else fixed initially and the contract merely mentioned variable but a tracker was given even though they could easily have refused it


#16

Of course fianna gael were clambering over the airwaves to get us all details on the faceless debt write downs by the banks, that would probably make charlie haughey blush.
Instead let’s all focus attention on a few thousand punters who lost a few grand switching interest rate products. Deflect attention to the ‘national crisis’ while nobody media, govt commitee or central bank can scrutinise the lists of write offs costing us all multiples of these tracker rate shenanigans.


#17

Didn’t hear it but it was probably Michael D’Arcy (Minister of State at the Department of Finance and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform with special responsibility for Financial Services and Insurance). They’ve been rolling him out lately, including on this week’s “Week in Politics” on RTE where he was also shitin’ on about “a range of options on the table”.


#18

First time hearing from Francesca McDonald of BoI who gave away absolutely nothing after meeting the Minister.

independent.ie/irish-news/t … 56207.html

She knows a thing or two about handling a scandal.She launched HSBC’s biometric system but when it blew up a year later, she went AWOL

computerweekly.com/news/4500 … -in-the-UK

BBC fools HSBC voice recognition security system - bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39965545

I hear David Murphy on Morning Ireland now saying the bankers argue the tracker contracts gave them the right to move borrowers to fixed rate many cases.

Is this the nub of it? Do we force the banks to give away money even if the fine print is on their side?


#19

That seems to be the case in a lot of trackers. But the Media are now pressuring the Politicians who are pressuring the banks…
Brendan Burgess was on Claire Byrne show last night saying that the CB had already pushed the banks beyond the legal remit (i.e. looking back more than 6 years). But Fintan O’Toole and Dearbhail McDonald were in uber populist rant mode and went for the hearts of viewers which will always win out v’s BB’s attempt to win the brains.


#20

And the banks recover the profit foregone, how exactly?

There is a reason why Irish banks have some of the highest margins in the eurozone, and it’s fairly clear, when you see the Irish media mob in full swing.

Don’t be expecting too many new entrants with real money at risk into the domestic banking market anytime soon either.