Tracker mortgages scandal - but who are the culprits?


#61

Have we got mixed up here. What is the role of the ECB? money is loaned to banks from the ECB to be lent to customers. The role of the ECB is for Banks and bankers. The role of Central Banks is to protect Banks and thereby Bankers as their medium of distribution. Who should be in charge of bank customers to see that ethics and morality is carried out to prevent The exploitation of customers. Is everything stacked in favour of the banks. Why did the taxpayers bail out the banks and who is now protecting the taxpayers from being used and exploited?


#62

All this talk about suicide/bankruptcy etc caused by a few % [wrongly] tacked onto rates makes one wonder what the f will happen when rates do normalise!


#63

The anger of the righteous - how droll!

Our politician are fighting to ensure the bankers keep the free money they awarded themselves during the boom.

thejournal.ie/finance-commit … 2-Oct2017/

No banker left behind!


#64

Mary, it’s a great question but let’s get a few things straight.

  1. Taxpayers didn’t bail out the banks. The politicians made a decision, in their own interest to bail out the banks. Take note that as a group politicians are some of the highest paid public servants. Very little information has been revealed of the specially arranged meetings between members of cabinet and the banks.
  2. Politicians both in government and in the opposition approved the bail out. It was not put to referendum.

So, to answer your question, taxpayers were used to bail out the banks, by both executive and non-executive branches of government, there was overwhelming support from elected politicians.

It was fundamentally about power and control.

The key being to maintain power amongst crony businessmen and officials while putting the burden of their mistakes on others, i.e. the taxpayers.


#65

Mary, it’s a great question but let’s get a few things straight.

  1. Taxpayers didn’t bail out the banks. The politicians made a decision, in their own interest to bail out the banks. Take note that as a group politicians are some of the highest paid public servants. Very little information has been revealed of the specially arranged meetings between members of cabinet and the banks.
  2. Politicians both in government and in the opposition approved the bail out. It was not put to referendum.

So, to answer your question, taxpayers were used to bail out the banks, by both executive and non-executive branches of government, there was overwhelming support from elected politicians.

It was fundamentally about power and control.

The key being to maintain power amongst crony businessmen and officials while putting the burden of their mistakes on others, i.e. the taxpayers.


#66

This is actually not true. A TD is paid the same as a principal officer in the civil service. Unfortunately TDs don’t get increments (increased pay for seniority) anymore but principal officers do. So basically everyone at this grade or above in the civil service (maybe 1,500 people when you include local authorities and various agencies) gets paid more than a backbench TD.

In most departments ministers are actually paid **less **than their secretary general.

Furthermore, there is the vast non-commercial and more importantly commercial semi-state sector where pay is far less transparent and is set with respect to market norms. I would say there are another 1,000 people there paid more than a TD.

If you want to get fat off the public purse then politics is not the way to go. Especially the considerable personal effort and cost needed in securing a nomination and subsequent election.


#67

You cant just look at a TDs basic pay and say thats what they earn.
They can double it with exps and claims. They are paid extra for committees and roles within them. They can hire relatives as paid assistants.
You have to take a more rounded look at that cohort!


#68

Why didn’t the ECB the European Central Bank bail out its subsidiary partners the Irish Banks. They began a large printing process. Did the wrong people the taxpayers of Ireland through their government bail out the banks. It looked like a law and order issue for the Irish government at that particular time. To maintain continuity. Should there be a charter of customer rights. Like public patient rights to some form of care on entering a hospital. There should be some new system to be for customers of banks, a charter of rights, to oppose the banking monopoly. What is this basis of the ECB rate plus etc. Deposit rates ara abismal. The taxpayers are not a banking system. Taxpayers will have to get all the money back from the banks in some form or other to benefit the government systems and reduce tax burdens of 52%. And the levies of 7%.


#69

If you really think that the bank bailout is the reason for your high taxation (both income related taxes and consumption taxes) in Ireland than you clearly need to have a closer look at what we spend the money on.
The cost of and waste in public sector overall, and health / welfare sector specifically is simply outstanding for what we are getting out of it.


#70

The ECB’s job is to bail out the Irish banks? Europe put its single currency at the disposal of our banks, and their best buddies, the property speculators? Oh, happy days! XX

Google “EU banking union” for the complicated answer.


#71

The ECB failed us. It’s systems of regulation were not strong enough or well thought out. They failed to intervene in our Irish banking system. They failed in their obligations under the EU treaty. Monitory Union was too weak. The European Central Bank’s systems did not work for us, an injustice was done, we were made scapegoats for EU incompitance. Irish taxpayers will have to be refunded. All our banking systems look weak. Could this mortgage scandal, bring one of them down?


#72

I must disagree with you.

Let me just look at what I said earlier…

I’ve highlighted in bold the word “some”. For sure they are not the highest paid, not by a long shot, but they are definitely well up there in the top 20% of public servants, even allowing for the semi-states (does that include the banks?) and the non-elected civil service executive who I’ve also identified as part of the problem.

Overall, the key commonality was that government and banks, aided by politicians, wanted to maintain the status quo after what was to be one of the most outlandish financial disasters of the modern world.

They succeeded. They pulled the biggest financial con of all time really. This goes well beyond anything else (on a per capita basis that I’m aware of).

Irish people supported it overall too in a general baggage sort of way. By consistently overall electing the same crowds over and over again.


#73

A TD will also spend disproportionately on eating out (they are never at home), buying rounds of drinks for supporters, contributing to their own election fund, etc. You have to have a wardrobe that’s good for TV at short notice. Hair and make-up is a big cost for many female TDs.

PS: they don’t get extra payments for sitting on committees, only chairing them.

PPS: if you want to do **really **well stand for election as an MEP.


#74

Can a (rural) TD claim the cost of dinner out as an expense or does the TD pay for it from their already taxed income/salary?


#75

Sorry, wrong on all counts, except that Monetary Union is too weak. In fairness, not surprising you believe this if you rely on Irish commentators.

If the ECB has failed in its obligations, it is through QE which is propping up the whole Euroarea at present, including us, despite the “no bailout” clauses (which you should read especially because Irish people enthusiastically endorsed them in the Maastricht Treaty)

Scapegoats? Who is “we”? Do you include our banks and developers? How about BTL speculators and their professional advisors? What about public sector benchmarkers, personal injury jackpot winners, “disability” claimants, gilt-edged pensioners? Anyone else who benefitted from our “boom”?


#76

Most TDs outside Dublin get about €30k untaxed, unvouched a year to cover the cost of transport to Dublin, around their constituency and accomodation while in Dublin.

This was probably not a bad deal in 2012, but probably less so today given what has happened to Dublin rents and hotel prices since.


#77

Including Zappone, famously, who lives closer to work than a lot of regular commuters in the greater Dublin area.


#78

Nobody who travels from Brittas, Co. Dublin to Leinster House would ever use the route she claimed she uses. If I recall correctly she said that she travels from Brittas to the M50 then around the M50 to Palmerstown and then in along the N4 along the quays to Leinster House. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t a joke that is costing the taxpayer €81k.

I believe that a taxi driver would be prosecuted for taking this route.


#79

How am I only learning that now ! It should be mentioned every time her name is. It’s almost as if she has media protection due to her trendy views :angry:


#80

Perfectly logical and fastest route in most circumstances. Thats the route id use. Have you ever tried to get into the ciy centre via templeogue or the naas road. The expenses incurred is ridiculous though which is a different matter