Unemployment rises to 14.9%


#21

The article you linked to earlier states:

This suggests to me that a good proportion of immigrant workers were not low-skilled; in fact they had a skill profile that was better than average for Irish workers.

I’m not saying that the immigrant worker programs in Ireland couldn’t have been managed better, but singling out immigrants when talking about how high unemployment figures are is a slippery slope.


#22

Actually, many immigrants were vastly overskilled. I’ve met Lithuanian doctors painting, a Polish Maths Phd waitressing and university educated “escorts”.


#23

Very good point…

Our thriving software industry would not exist were it not for the skilled labour that has relocated here from all corners of Europe…

Do you really think Google, Facebook, Ebay, Paypal would all be here if the Irish labour pool was all they could depend on?


#24

Sending people on Fás courses.


#25

Where did you meet the latter? :laughing:


#26

Neighbours!


#27

Neighbours, Everybody needs good neighbours
With a little understanding
You can find the perfect blend
Neighbours…should be there for one another
That’s when good neighbours become good friends
Ooh Neighbours, should be there for one another
That’s when good neighbours become good friends.


#28

…keeps the people in Fas off the dole…apart from that though…


#29

We need to remove tax individualisation and sent a lot of women (or some men) back to the household to free up jobs.


#30

The reason why it matters is not that they are “immigrants”, it is that there is usually a reasonably high level of cash outflow from the ocuntry in remittances to support family in another country.

search.worldbank.org/data?qterm= … anguage=EN

siteresources.worldbank.org/INTP … reland.pdf

That ammounted to US$2.7billion that flowed out of Ireland (US$1.2billion is non-compensation) at the peak in 2008, offset by US$600million (US$0.01billion in non compensation) that was received. These are the official numbers, very difficult to count and likely underestimated. Compensation remittances need to be removed as they reflect professionals on assignment overseas, may include directors renumeration for some private companies, etc.)

The impact is less money in the country to be spent in the local economy and the impact is large. Allot of studies exist of the impact of remittances on the receiving country, like Mexico where more than US$20billion per year is received or the 2nd largest source of income after oil. Interestingly, the average remittance is around US$250.00 per month and most of the money received is spent very locally on basics so the influence on local economy is massive.

On the oppsite side, there is precious little study but US$1.2billion outflow is not a small matter in a country like Ireland. If, in addition, some of these funds are coming from welfare payments, child support, etc. and there is additional cost to house and maintain health in the host country the numbers can add up pretty quick.

I am an emmigrant/immigrant myself and support open immigration policy, however, the welfare supports in Europe add a hefty cost to the host related to remittances and supporting unemployed immigrants and it certainly should be considered in any economic and policy analysis.


#31

10,000 Irish people employed instead of 10,000 immigrants coming in to the country to take jobs drops the unemployment rate down to 14.65%
Replacing immigrants with local employees solves the problem.


#32

Were Irish people doing these jobs before? Were they fired when the immigrants showed up? If not, there is no way you can characterise immigrants as ‘taking’ these jobs from Irish people. A job isn’t the private property of the person doing it (or the country in which it’s done) anyway. Besides, immigration adds to aggregate demand - because it is population growth. Are you against 18 year olds entering the workforce at low wages ‘taking’ jobs from breadwinners? There are lots of ways to invidiously pit one constituency against another!


#33

Nice one dipole.

If IT multinationals (Ebay, google etc) were not in a position to hire talent from around Europe, then they would not be in Ireland in the first place…so you are quite wrong in fact. Stop these people from coming in, and Irish unemployment would rise…much bigger problem.

(ps, surely you are trolling…silly me for answering…).


#34

The discussion was on immigrants claiming dole…

I may be naiive here, but rent allowance cant be remitted.


#35

If the past counts as a different country then how about Ireland in 1988?


#36

Since I’m a non-national in a German company in Germany I’m more mindful of exactly what I’m suggesting than you.
Climb down off your high horse there boyo.
Simple fact is that 10,000 irish people employed rather than searching the world for 10,000 auslanders reduces unemployment.
As governments can plan for the long run they can work toward this over decades.
If it was decided two decades ago that Ireland’s educational system would produce it’s own doctors, engineers, language specialists and software engineers rather than arts students, plasterers, brickies and sparks Ireland wouldn’t be where it is now.


#37

The discussion was a broader one of unemployment at 14.9%, a few posters had talked aobut imjmigrants having a negative impact to the rate both in terms of taking jobs and claiming unemployment benefits, I think it was valid to identify that remittances are a part of the picture and any cash can be remitted whether from employment or benefits.


#38

Unfortunately, as of 2000 (expect it went down and now back up or higher) 30% of 3rd level graduates emmigrate and 60% of doctors trianed in the country (not to say a good proportion were not foreign students, don’t know).
siteresources.worldbank.org/INTP … reland.pdf


#39

I don’t know why you are all giving Hi-Fi such a hard time. If immigrants are an irrelevance to the situation, demonstrate it.

During the recent publicity on Richard Tol’s report about how it was uneconomic to come off the dole to work, I happened to catch a bit of Joe Duffy on my lunch break. One of the callers talked about how she couldn’t fill summer positions in her restaurant business in the west with local people, eventually she got someone who came in from Eastern Europe to do it. In that one particular case, an immigrant is contributing to our unemployment rate because an Irish person is sitting on their arse drawing dole instead of working.

Note, it’s NOTHING against the immigrant for coming in and taking the job. Fair dues to them.

The issue is that we have highly-educated immigrants taking menial jobs that Irish people don’t want to do. Importing people to work in shops was a CT luxury that we can’t seem to give up.


#40

Where I live in Baden-Wuerttemburg there are world class Universities churning out germans with Engineering, IT, chemistry, physics, biology, economics, Medicine, translation expertise. They are providing the majority of the staff that local industry/society needs. Of course there are foreign workers and I’m one of them but we are very much in the minority. When I was working in IT in Ireland the majority of my co-workers in skilled roles were foreign.
the Irish educational\vocational system is not producing the type of employees that industry\society needs and this needs to be addressed at Government level. By addressing it I mean create the type of staff that employers want to employ, don’t issue VISAs for foreigners.
The company I work in was formed by a small group of German engineers decades ago and now Germany has an absolutely huge indigenous software industry. You don’t get indigenous industries by relying on transient workers.