Here’s a tip: when disputing evidence, provide your own sources instead of just griping about mine. That way we get discussion instead of pointless bellyaching.
JLads I read the autopsy report linked above. Recommend all of you do.
In particular the toxicology (conducted by LC-MS/MS which is the undisputed gold standard technique for chemical analysis of body fluids) is stark - the chap was on a cocktail of opioids and hash with tens of ppm in his blood and urine. Watching the video its also clear that the deceased was off his head and presumably that is why he was initially placed sitting against the wall by the cops.
Now, I do not wish to exonerate the Police but cardiac and respiratory stress caused from those drugs are a known cause of death, as cited in the autopsy.
The facts, all of the facts, have been obscured by a fog of rage and despite the massive social (and economic - cf woke preaching by just about every multinational) incentives for weighing in on the side of BLM we should not dispense with due process and the pursuit of truth and justice. At this stage it seems to me that the outcome of a trial could be murder or manslaughter.
Hash and opiods are not toxic to the heart. On the other hand he was positive for meth. This definitely could have played a role.
This is irrelevant.
Say you knocked someone down, while drink driving at 50 mph in a built up area, and they died. You would face serious charges. If it turned out they had a heart defect that made it more likely that they would die, that would not be your ticket home from jail.
Same here. If you choke someone for 8 minutes, no matter whether they have health problems or are under the influence of substances, you are doing something that has a decent probability of killing them. The fact that Floyd may have been more vulnerable does not mitigate matters.
On the other hand, if police officers often deal with people who are under the influence of substances that make them more vulnerable to injury, and knowing this the cops persist in doing bizarre choke maneuvers on bound and restrained citizens, then that aggravates the offence of the cops.
The simple fact is there was no need for the cop to do what he did. None at all. He did a risky thing to a bound man, knowing it was risky. What you’ve said may mean that he had even more reason than we might have imagined to believe that he’d succeed in killing Floyd through the maneuver. At the end of it, Floyd was dead, and the cop has to take responsibility for his crime and face consequences.
The litany of posts here about what Floyd was taking is unseemly. Those posters should examine their own motives. (They won’t, of course).
That’s the problem here - regard for due process puts one at risk of being called a racist etc.
If you read all of my posts above you will see that I wrote that the policeman should have relented. The guy was pleading for his life. Cop used excessive force.
But you write ‘the posters should examine their motives’. That is unfair. We should be entilted to seek out all the facts without insinuations of racism. The Jussie Smollet case demonstrated the importance of that.
Does reading, and quoting, the toxicology report make one a racist?
My post was directed at those who, for whatever reason, seem to think it’s more important what Floyd was taking than that he was murdered. If you scan my posts you won’t see any accusations of racism. There is no evidence whatsoever that Floyd’s killing was racially motivated. Personally I consider the worldwide protests on that score a fiasco. Hopefully we can agree then that Floyd’s killing was illegal and charges should be brought.
Quite right about Meth, which I omitted to mention was detected too.
My comment was prompted by this (from his toxicology report):
Signs associated with fentanyl toxicity include severe respiratory depression, seizures, hypotension, coma and death. In fatalities from fentanyl, blood concentrations are variable and have been reported as low as 3 ng/mL.
His fentanyl concentration was 11 ng/mL. Meth was 19 ng/mL.
Caffeine, Cotinine, 4-ANPP, 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC Delta-9 Carboxy THC Delta-9 THC Methamphetamine Fentanyl Norfentanyl Cannabinoids Amphetamines Fentanyl / Metabolite Morphine
Yes, I agree that it was illegal and charges should be brought.
I also think it was excessive and cruel.
I am also reminded of the miscarriages of justice against Irish people by the RUC and the British Police during the 70s and 80s.
However, discarding due process with its presumption of innocence to humour protestors is also wrong and tantamount to some kind of mob justice.
Opiates including fentanyl cause death by respiratory depression. ie the person stops beathing. This respiratory depression is always accompanied by sedation/coma. The video clearly shows GF was not comatose before his death. Opiates did not contribute materially to his death.
On the other hand meth use is associated with adverse heart events.
THIS DOES NOT REDUCE OR EXCUSE THE ROLE OF THE POLICE OFFICER’S BEHAVIOUR IN HIS DEATH
This is notable. I agree this does not exonerate the policeman, or whoever trained him.
Murder is a legal term so IMO you have jumped the gun a little
You can still have this opinion on the internet, but in the real world its getting more difficult, the committee of public safety won’t like your contrarian ideas
Watching this all play out is fascinating, poor Tom Wolfe, he died too soon, if he wasn’t dead he would have died laughing
Fair play to the lads in that photo, kneeling on hard marble floor (with both knees down) is no mean achievement when sustained for any length of time. Maybe that’s why not one of the women in the photo is kneeling, too soft, lacking grit, determination, or maybe they don’t have to kneel because what this is really about is opportunistic ritual humiliation of white males who we all know are the number one cause of every woe in America, but to be fair to the lads in the picture, they’ve spotted a great photo opportunity to increase their standing with women and black voters so they’re going for it, attaboys, that’s the spirit, the spirit that built America, keeping it built, making it great again
Exactly. Check out the corporate preaching. Conform or starve.
This is frankly pathetic. First, even in that photo two thirds of the men are standing. Second, if we bothered to look at the (literal) bigger picture, only a small minority of anyone is kneeling:
And the context is that Senator Booker of New Jersey has just led a prayer. Folks here may have their panties in such a twist that it has cut off the blood supply to their brain, causing them to forget that Christians regularly kneel in prayer. The only “ritual humiliation” going on here is of the intellects of people stupidly cherrypicking photos to suit their prejudices.
Bad day for Cork
But look the Irish Times dug up a counterstory !
Extremely disturbing (I saw the video on Bitchute) anti-Irish racist attack last night in Cork where a young Irish kid was repeatedly stabbed by black immigrants but barely a mention of it in the mainstream media. Imagine it was the other way around. It would be worldwide news. There are also multiple similar videos of Irish kids being beaten by immigrants using “slavery” as an excuse. No doubt this has been stoked up the the mainstream media, BLM etc.
Imagine a city with no police?
Prejudices eh… but nice find. Thanks.
This “taking a knee” thing is all over the place right now tbh, it is hard to know what is going on but it always struck me (going back to sports people doing it some years ago) as a rather weak and stupid symbolic gesture, because it is “submissive” it made no symbolic sense when it was rolled out, but that does not stop adoption of anything.
You need to kind of use the “water bucket” challenge as a control here, if you are familiar with it’s genesis and proliferation.
Now there are examples of I think FBI and National Guard taking a knee (oh and some dancing National Guard too… yes that kin f of media “puppy shot” type things again), some say fake some say not, other say staged in some instances but not all - the informational fog of war is mighty and so too is the volume. Early imagery of burning city streets,(I am not even referring to the Q drops), but very good fake, but a little bit to movie like.
Gaslighting appears to be the name of the day at this point. Gaslighting beyond anyones ability to fully track and trace on an individual level.