2 year lurker - have very much enjoyed - great work by all!!
Currently renting (since return here in 05) - glad to be finally seeing some slow realisation that all might not be well on planet FF.
Keep up the good work everyone!
2 year lurker - have very much enjoyed - great work by all!!
Hello, just made my first post elsewhere… then saw this thread.
I’m needle - ex-pat paddy in the UK.
Been on HPC and GHPC for some years and a long-time lurker here.
Am a beta-tester on BeerHunters Property-Bee project from the beginning.
As I said in the other post, the quality of posters and discussion here is a revelation and has compelled me to join.
As a sneery political type I love the non-sneering apolitical stance of the site.
Other than that, I like Pina Coladas, and getting caught in the rain.
I’m not much into health food, I am into champagne.
I like making love at midnight, in the dunes of the cape.
I’ve found the love that I’ve looked for, she came with me, and escaped.
Thats about it, really.
I have been reading the pin since day 1 and the closure and banning of members in the house price discussions on aam. At the time I was in the process of selling a house which I bought as an investment property in 2003. When I came back from a year traveling in 2006 the decision was made easy when I was told the company which employed my tenants were leaving 20 houses in the medium sized rural town. People were asking me what was I doing but I could’nt tell them my my mortgage was half the sale price of a 3 year old house. Selling was too good an opportunity to pass up.
I am now waiting until I can buy a nice house in Dublin 6 - this should leaves me with monthly payments of a bit more than I currently pay in rent. It never never bothered me to rent because I live in a lovely neighborhood and I couldn’t face in commuter hell like some friends and colleagues I know who moved to Kildare and Meath.
I still think there is a huge amount of seller denial. They will never realise what they currently think their houses are worth. I feel this needs another year to really sink in. I also think you only have to look to what happened in the US (followed a year later by the UK) to see what should happen here. Sadly it will be desperation and lack of other alternatives which will force a lot of people to pay for their misplaced enthusiasm during the boom.
I have friends who were going to buy in the States last year. With the help of my reading lists (housepricecrash.co.uk for example) and the material here I was able to convince them not to do it. I told him his job in construction was not safe there so he held off. Soon after that his work dried up and now he and his wife and 2 kids are back in Ireland getting their life going here. I think he will be thanking me forever for my advice.
There are others I know who traded up and others bought. The guy who traded up was happy to get out of the part of town they lived in and moved somewhere they now love, he too reads this site daily. The ones who bought couldn’t be convinced last year. Their rented apartment was being demolished. Thankfully their new place is their home and they have no investment properties and they have 2 decent incomes. I heard others in work talking of buying and even closing in the last 6 months, I was speechless.
I was also speechless at the electorate for returning fianna fail to power - I tried to convince everyone I knew who had no preference to vote fine gael / labour. I think the election was just a bit too soon before everyone knew there was major trouble here. I am interested in seeing what would change under a different government. It seems FF are like Ireland’s GW Bush and we need some hope.
Thanks to all for this resource. It kept me sane when I knew it was the right time to sell and wait.
Name - Hobbesian World View (Thats Thomas Hobbes not Eddie)
Sex - Male (ie not desperate to own at any cost)
House Buying Status - Didnt buy in 2006, thanks to the pin. Still renting and watching prices fall.
View on Irish property - The market was rigged by local authorities limiting the amount of zoned land, and limiting planning permissions. There is NO shortage of land in Ireland. The price is high because of restricting the supply with zoning rules.
View on the public sector - We could balance our budget if public sector wages were cut by 25%, and their pensions were converted to defined contribution.
View on the private sector - Irish CEOs and boards of directors are vastly overpaid. Company law should be amended to give shareholders the right to vote on every single piece of directors remuneration. And allow shareholders to sue management for underperformance. Require express shareholder approval for golden parachutes.
View on Ireland - Nation of binge drinking, debt monkeys, who dont know the difference between debt and wealth.
Would I Emigrate? - Why should I leave, lets drive out the parasites instead.
Came across the 'pin doing research on house prices in areas we were interested in. It’s a great resource.
First time buyer looking for a place in Dublin. An affordable place. I don’t live to work.
Name - Conan D Hungarian
Sex - Male
House Buying Status - Bought a one bed apartment in Dublin City Centre in 2002. I live on my own, no current plans to move. Will be in Negative Equity from purchase price at 2006 peak-35% approx and at Negative Equity from outstanding mortgage at peak-50% approx. My income has doubled since the purchase so the mortgage is no issue at all (<25% of disposable income).
View on Irish property - Agree with the general sentiment of the Pin. Glad I didn’t release equity or buy an investment property. It never felt right to me. This site has reinforced that view.
View on the public sector - I used to be one (Civil Servant) but left in 2000. If what I saw (and remember) plus what I know from ex-colleagues is still the case in 2009, then there is scope to knock 40% off the wage bill through salary and headcount reductions. It was bad when I was there but at least the salaries lagged behind the private sector. Now, it’s just a joke.
View on the private sector - Too dependent on FDI and ‘knowing the right people’. Lots of inefficiency too - not in all organisations but in a lot (in my experience). Some of this inefficiency will be driven out by redundancies but redundancy can be a blunt instrument in a lot of organisations and the good people are sometimes let go while the useless ones linger on. Depends on the policy of the organisation and the criteria for redundancy.
View on Ireland - Even though the land has been around for millions of years and the people for thousands of years, we (the nation) have been around for less than 100 years. I tell myself that this is the reason why our political and business ‘systems’ seem so immature compared to other nations and that we will eventually evolve into a ‘proper’ country but I’m not sure I always believe that we will get there.
Would I Emigrate? - No plans to but would/could if I lost my job and couldn’t find any work for 12 months plus.
I have been a member since Feb 07. I was “lurking” on the site since it went live. I was expecting a crash for years, as I had lived through one before.
I have read a lot of comments about members of the Pin been bitter dysfunctional 30 year olds still at home with Mammy or loser renters in shoe boxes.
I would disagree with this. The Pin has produced some of the best economic and Information analysis I have seen. I do not conform to this stereotype, and off the record, will happily disabuse any Journos of this opinion.
So here is my introduction:
Name: Onlyone, which means that I only ever owned one residential property at a time, and my Son, now, 11, was a massive fan of Star Wars when I registered. Saw all the movies about 10 times. I don’t wish to list my real name as the media read this site all the time.
Sex: Male, married, two Kids, age 44
House Buying Status: Long one, but read my posts. I took a kicking in UK in 1989, sold in 1997 for same nominal money, so lost big time, and lost the cost of all the improvements as well. Bought in Dublin in 1994 for IR67k, and sold Dublin in April 06 for >€1.5m. Mad. I did not buy back. I am renting at the moment, due to personal circumstances. My old Neighbours laugh when they see me, and expect me to buy the drinks. Did a few other commercial deals as well.
Current business/occupation: I have started 5 business in Ireland since 1996, and sold 4 of them. Most are still running, which is great. My current business specialises in high end travel and leisure, and after a bad 08 is now rocking. Thanks to the Pin for the advice given at my worst moment, which has helped me survive. I remain solvent, with significant assets, even at current value, at the moment. 2008 was awful.Business is really picking up in 09. Looking at 75% growth.
View on Irish Property: It is of course a one way bet, downwards! It will take 10 years given the lack of real market information in Ireland, which in turn creates uncertainty. I think Moran Kelly is right – 2nd time round, and 80% drops in real terms will be the outcome.
View on the Public Sector: I am an ex public sector employee, loved working there, no stress, benefits and hours unequalled. It’s however woefully mismanaged, and at the lower levels, and at higher levels, woefully overpaid. The Vanguard of the public sector; the nurses and teachers maintain this status quo, and to be honest we have no hope of changing it. The people get the government they elect, and we continue to elect the same people. Eg Sean Haughy – what a waste of public money.
View on Ireland: I love my country, but the mismanagement of it, the bungalow blight, the incompetent planning, and the embarrassment I suffer when I arrive at Dublin Airport, with its filth, delays, and overcrowding, is starting to make me doubt . I also wonder if we are still a democracy when a small unelected elite (called the social partners, IBEC,SIPTU,ICTU,CORI) can sit and dictate to the elected Government, and the people, what the, the government, will and will not do.
Would I emigrate: Already have, but I still have to manage the business in Ireland, and until I earn it out, I must commute.
Name: Kate P
House Buying Status: Built 4 bed house on husband’s land a few years ago in Midlands, even at that stage there was over 100k difference in the quotes. We chose the right one, fortunately and have a reasonable mortgage as a result and an excellently built home. Many of his colleagues have built more expensive sheds under the Farm Waste Management Scheme - that which kept the final few builders off the dole queues until Christmas.
View on Irish Property: Planning, zoning and local area development plans are all predicated on the basic assumption that development means outwards. Bray’s Local Area Development Plan worth looking at for that reason and current discussion of the same plan would seem to indicate that no lessons have been learned. It and many others should be torn up and some focus placed on regeneration within towns, rather than ever-increasing circles of soulless suburbs.
View on the Public Sector: I was employed as a teacher for a long time. Cutting the most productive posts - language assistants for example, to save money in the short term was an enormous, enormous mistake. Cutting pay and numbers across the sector without a fundamental re-think of work practices, ethic and structures will mean see a disproportionate impact on frontline staff as usual. We’ve left it too late to make the changes effectively - should have been done when times were good, but we all know that.
View on Ireland: major overhaul of local government - officialdom and membership required if the country is to make any progress. And I’m not too hopeful of that.
AMM status: not bothered, lurking here for a long, long time though only recently registered. Used to post on p.ie until the Great Outage and am still a fairly regular poster on machinenation. Less time for all sites now that I’m self-employed rather than working for Mr Cowen.
Would/Where would I buy? Nowhere right now. That which is qualitatively worth buying hasn’t reached good value yet and probably won’t for quite a while. Tied to the farm but have sentimental longings for the sea and mountains. My Inisfree is in Mayo, Kerry or Wicklow. In the event of a windfall, husband would invest in a farm in England; I’d be sending him the fruits of my nine bean rows in the post from Ballinskelligs…
Hat tip to the Pin and all that sails in her
Name - Hang’em’high (coz when the Revolution comes this I hope will be the rallying cry)
Sex - Male
House Buying Status - Teeney weeney mortgage on PPR - sold up holiday home in the south of France Dec '07 - I have woken up many nights thinking thanks be to jaysus I was a Closet Pinster
View on Irish property - As bearish as a dancing bear on roller skates that has just joined a group of travelling bears in a speciality bear circus performing various bear acts.
View on the public sector - Like alot of Irish people the PS believe “they are worth it!” - but they are sooo wrong
View on the private sector - We definitely think we are worth it - ironically we are just as incorrect
View on Ireland - In a word - Discombobulated. The great Ctrl+Alt+Delete is underway.
Would I Emigrate? - Nope. The worse it gets the better - eventually I WILL live a utopian version of the Good Life (70’s self-sufficiency sit-com)
Status, 22 year expat, who foolishly thought I could return to Ireland, but didn’t have the $1m a 3 bed semi cost at the time
Views, From 2003 the Irish house market seemed to be following the dot com bubble to a t, saw friends who couldn’t run a race, running a small LL empire, It just seemed to scream the old adage " when the shoe shine boy is giving stock tips its time to sell"
Thought that 2004 would see the end of it, and it did, the madness ended and the insanity began
Views on Ireland, The more I learn the the less I like, Individually nice people who as a group are not so nice, as the joke goes " madam, first class isn’t an airline ticket"
Long time Pin reader, recently signed up. Never a fan of AAM!
Came into a bit of money and invested in a holiday home with family members in the late 90’s, got out in 2004 (I could see it coming - what goes up, comes down) and bought a gaff which should be be sufficient for the next few decades.
Disagree with the great majority of the views here as to what should be done, but the diagnosis of what’s happening is second to none.
I think Ireland will be screwed unless and until its political system is reformed - primarily with a much larger and more detailed constitution and also a merger between the old conservative Civil War parties, or until one of them implodes.
Name: grasshopper - here to learn. Lurking for the last 10 months or so.
House Buying Status: renting since I left home; used to move around a lot. Current property rented for 9 years - we didn’t realise we’d be in Ireland for so long. Also, when arrived in 2000, property market seemed overheated (remember the days when house prices went up by about 5K per day?), prices seemed ridiculous (“you want how much for that small pile of gerry-built bricks?”) and was expecting a crash imminently. Plus, no deposit saved. From 2004 onwards, property even more ridiculously priced. Plus, trying to save a deposit while tailing an exponentially-increasing price level was impossible. However, cavewoman here probably would have bought unwisely if hubby hadn’t held firm in face of hormonal nesting.
View on Irish Property: downwards - uncertainty levels are so high - tax bills, unemployment, etc. - not sure where it will stop. I thought that the 80% figure was overblown, but now I’m not so sure.
View on Ireland: Depressingly nepotistic. Greed has featured rather prominently in all aspects of life as everyone has tried to grab their piece of the pie in the last 10-15 years or so.
Would I re-emigrate: Maybe, just not sure where to. Do like it here though, and would feel as though I were bailing out.
What was the great outage on P.ie. I know it has gone to shite though.
Been lurking for a year or so recently registered.
House buying status: Started looking in summer 2007. Sale Agreed in Feb 08. Deposit down. They decided not to sell. Saved myself 100k and counting. Almost sale agreed in May 08 - pulled out at the last minute a sly fox EA put me off tryna Glenarry Glenross me. Been watching prices tumble since. Have a hefty chunk of deposit saved now. Thinking I was soon to buy I moved back with the mother over a year ago - love her an all but can’t do it. Renting again as of next week.
AAM status: found the pin through it and haven’t been back since.
View on an Irish property crash: Am pleased about it - wish it would speed up though. Just want to be able to buy a place for a reasonable price in an area I like. Is that’s so difficult?
Timeline for crash: Feel like there is probably 2-3 more years go.
Where would I buy property: Am partial to Ranelagh or by the sea Booterstown or Sandycove. Still dreamin’ on that front for now…
Have been clicking in and out on a regular basis.
House buying status: Renting for last 9 yr’s - made an effort on couple of occasions to purchase but was unlucky with seller (either they pulled out on the sale or acted the maggot with pricing).
Work: Private sector, procurement.
View on an Irish property crash: It’s only getting interesting now as squeeze is getting tighter and tighter - alot more pain to come.
Timeline for crash: How long is a ball of string? Al depends on when our “Government” decides to address the current issues head on. Best case 5-7yr’s, worst case 12-15yr’s and maybe more.
Where would I buy property: The Peoples Republic of Cork, green site preferably.
Age - Late 30s
Occupation - Software development
**Location **- France. Left Ireland in 2001 to move here. Don’t get back to visit as often as I’d like.
Family - Married, two kids.
**House buying status **- Outstanding mortgage is currently about 2/3rds the value of our house.
View on Irish property - Has been out of touch with long-term economic reality since late 1990s. I’d a choice in the early 00s to buy an apartment in Dublin or Paris and even then the intrinsic value in Paris was much greater than in Dublin. I was astonished by how much the bubble inflated up to 2006.
View on the public sector - Mixed. A lot of good people working in the public sector, but I don’t understand how it was allowed to grow so much during this decade. The Irish state can’t afford the current size, but cutting the front-line services doesn’t seem to be the answer. When I was growing up in Dublin, there was way too much of a “public service is a job for life” mentality, even while most people accepted that it was a potentially very boring job. This has to change if the sector is going to be more cost-effective.
**View on the private sector **- Again mixed. I’m weary of company strategy being dictated by fickle stock markets. The market is a necessary part of resource allocation, but stock prices in particular have been given way too much emphasis over the last couple of decades.
View on Ireland - Love the people in general, but hate the politics and some recent aspects of the culture - excessive materialism and consumerism, losing sight of the importance of simplicity and thrift. Still, I feel most at ease talking shite in a Dublin pub, or walking on a beach on the west coast.
Would I emigrate? - I did. I’d love to move back, but there are so many things stopping me (corruption, congestion, lack of proper infrastructure, rampant gombeenism/cronyism, short-termist political and development strategies, lack of accountability, and so on and on). No country is perfect, but Ireland has an especially bad mix at the moment.
**Age **over 40
House buying status: own one. looking to move
AAM status: newbie
**View on an Irish property crash: **
Expect more than 50% decline peak to trough.
**Timeline for crash: **
No respite until 2012.
**Where would I buy property: **
Nowhere right now unless trading down which may be sensible.
**Name **-nosy parker
**Age **- mid-30’s
**Occupation **- Insurance
**Location **- Dublin
**Family **- Married, two small kids
House buying status - Owner since 1999. Mortgage paid-off. Looking to trade-up, but it looks like we’ll have to wait 2 or 3 years for the bottom to be approached - not looking to pick the bottom, but don’t want to catch the falling knife.
View on Irish property - took my eye off the ball around 2004, when I decided that prices were out of line, but the really crazy stuff seems to have happened in 05&06. Thought for a millisecond about selling to rent, but the hassle and risk (it was a brave call a couple of years ago - I know someone who made the same call in 1999) just wasn’t worth it.
It’s looking like it will be a long, slow decline.
View on the public sector - the problems are threefold, imo:
- the Keenan and Buckley reports that decided the higher echelons (and TDs) should get paid massive amounts, because otherwise they would leave and get paid massive amounts in the private sector. Let them leave and see how they fare I say. Some of the salaries demonstrate absolute detachment from the real world.
- the feedback loop that occurred between house prices and public sector pay for ‘ordinary’ public sector workers: garda can’t buy house, benchmarking increases his pay, this creates demand which pushes up house prices, nurse can’t afford house, benchmarking increases his pay etc etc…
- The increase in public sector employment before each of the last 2 elections
My view has been changed somewhat recently: I am about to take a **massive **paycut (50-60%) to join the public sector - job satisfaction and family-friendly work-practices being the main reasons for doing so. (As an employer they know they cannot compete on salary levels for a person of my qualifications and experience.)
Would I emigrate? - No. Too many family ties.
Name - liathróidí
Age - 31
House Buying Status - FTB in 2001
View on Irish property - I have one - Im ok - feel sorry for all those in the red.
View on the public sector - Needs improvement however I dont agree with cutting nurse or garda wages. Get rid of the dead wood. Politicians lack real world experience
View on the private sector - Not all companies have shareholders so what the top brass get paid is none of your business really. Reward staff well and dont screw them over as some companies have done
View on Ireland - Disappointed in the way things have inflated and the government have done bugger all. Have had a business fail as we couldnt compete on price. Says it all really. Now that everything is on the way down - its time to rebuild.
Would I Emigrate? - yes and will
Name - Professor James Moriarty
Sex - Male
House Buying Status - Bought a 3 bed semi-D in Sandyford in 2000. Bought a one bed studio in Budapest in late 2003.
Might be time to upscale soon.
View on Irish property - I believe prices will drop 80% from the Summer 2007 peak.
View on the private sector - The broad shouldered Software and Pharm industries are the Boxer of this Animal Farm.
We’ve survived despite the governments incompetence and we continue to fund the public servant sinecures.
View on Ireland - As a technical graduate with a couple of degrees and who speaks another European language I watched as men of lesser IQ’s engorged themselves at the trough of Property. Now the trough has run dry, the pendulum has swung back to the technical geeks.
No one is unhurt in a recession, but some are more hurt than others, the more pain the better say I - bring it on.
Would I Emigrate? - Probably not, but I have a comfortable escape pod in readiness:
- I work for a multinational with branches in Sweden
- Wife and kids hold Swedish passports
- I speak Swedish