We should be furious at how our tax is spent

Yeah, the civil service are bad value for money. But if we privatise them, we will get even worse value for money. Like when they privatised the railways in Britain, train fares went up and crashes went up too.

You cant privatise a natural monopoly.

Agreed. But much of the public sector isn’t a natural monopoly. Health care? Have hospitals competing for your custom and watch prices fall and standards improve. Education? Ditto. If you want to retain a social subsidy element then don’t give money to the providers - give vouchers to the users which they can spend where they wish.

And cherry pick their customers. And drop unprofitable treatments.

No, I think health care really is a public service. That doesn’t justify the HEA though.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Are you a civil servant by any chance?

In the US, county council work is contracted out to private companies. If they don’t perform on budgets and service, they’re replaced by another competeting company. The way it should be.

The taxpayer is not burdened with paying massive, unjustified salaries or pensions or expenses. The directors of the companies are personally responsible for issues they are contracted to maintain, etc. No such thing as a job for life…

Umm, that is the way it is here too!

From sewage to broadband and from motorways to rail track; almost all infrastructural development is carried out by contracted companies. Typically, the only role the county council have is in maintenance (very often, this is being out-sourced too).

Leaving the CoCo to get on with much “more important business”, i.e. planning, handing out contracts and voting.

If only our own government had the balls to whip each and every one of those civil servant tossers into shape…


See, that’s 25 years of incessant wall-to-wall Privateer propaganda for you.

The very idea of proper reform of the public sector, keeping it in public hands but simply organising it properly, giving it proper direction, slashing unnecessary bureaucracy and wasteful, stupid work practices and making the damn system work by getting the right people in the right places who want to deliver is simply discounted as an impossibility in modern political debate. The entire question has been simply phrased as a false dichotomy:

“You can have bloated inefficient wasteful public sectors; or you can have efficient private operators. Choose!”

Tis all bollocks. Binary solution sets usually are.

That’s because it is impossible.

If you try to change a tiny part of a public sector job description you’ll have to stump up compensation for the change. Try and introduce the wholesale change that’s required and it’ll cost you more than just leaving things as they are. Try to push through the changes and you’ll end up wasting years of effort banging your head against a wall and still end up with the grubby paw out for change compensation for whatever tiny change you actually get agreed.

If the madcap deliniation rules and change compensation culture existed in companies that I’ve worked with I would have gone mad by now.

I genuinely believe the rot has now gone too far. Even the most well intentioned honest and hard working government would not have it within their grasp to bring the public service under control in this country.

If anyone ever has the balls to try and really change things it will spark strikes and work to rules like you’ve never seen. It can’t happen under Bertie because he’ll pony up the cash to keep them happy so that his time in charge is as peaceful as possible.

In Ireland you either need to get rich enough so that this stupidity doesn’t bother you. Or else you need to become a public servant so that you get your cut of the pie.

If you’re scraping by as a PAYE worker and finding it ever harder to make ends meet than you need to rethink your career path.



I know, apparently some of those guys are train drivers, and the job used to be very physically demanding years and years ago. Not now of course. I heard some french dude on newstalk say that although that’s not the case anymore, its more mentally demanding these days. When pushed on this, he referred to stress, like “the stress of going so fast” :laughing:

I get stressed at work too, I want to retire at 50! https://www.thepropertypin.com/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif

I find it strange that people can see fit to lay the blame for all ills at the door of the public service. As Sidewinder said above, over the past couple of decades and the last one in particular, public policy has concerned itself primarily with catering to the needs of industry. We’re all well aware of how the builders have had direct access to Government but right across the spectrum it has taken place. State subsidies and tax incentives have been readily available to private companies which choose to set up in Ireland. Greenbear this evening has pointed out on another thread how the Central Bank has facilitated private lending institutions which sought to do away with traditional restrictions on borrowing, again presumably because it was following what is termed a “pro-business” model. Government policy in all areas has been predicated on the basis that whatever action it was taking was in the interest of the Irish economy. However, it would now appear that many of these so-called “pro-business” policies have been destructive in their nature and that it will be ordinary taxpayers who will suffer as a result. While the State should take its (large) portion of the blame, should those in industry and the policies which they have advocated not be held accountable also? Or will it just be a case of blame the Government, Civil Service etc for the recession and keep the propoganda machine rolling in anticipation of the next boom cycle? Surely, if industry wants to be placed at the centre of society through privatisation or through pushing for industry related policies to be implemented, when they are implemented, private operators should ship their share of the blame when they go wrong?

As an aside, with regard to bureacracy and with particular regard to the civil service I recently came across “Parkinsons Law” which attempts to explain in a semi-humorous manner, the nature of bureaucracy. Apparently Dr. Parkinson, while working in the British civil service toward the end of the era of Empire noticed that employment at the Colonial Office continued to expand even though the number of colonies within the Empire was decreasing. Basically, his theory states that “work expands to fill the available time for its completion”. Based on the expansion of work, extra staff will therefore be required and the process will repeat itself ad nauseum.


Osmosis? What are you on? Maybe you need to go on another NLP course. :wink:

I’ll explain.

First, create a totally New Public Service (PS B)

Secondly, leave the existing Public Service in tact, change nothing. (PS A)

Thirdly, open a clear channel (membrane) between the two.

Finally, watch the porcess of Osmosis work its magic.

Simple eh!

A little padding which might help to explain.

What I personally would like to create with PS-B intialy would be to specify 101 intial positions. Equal pay, equal terms. No managment strucutre. No deparmental structure. I would give the new 101 participants each 1 new computer + very fast Internet. A pen. some note paper and probably a few other things, like whitboards, projectors etc. Whteve you need to be creative.

I would then set the primary or catalyst goal as to discover what is the meaning (function) of this NEW PS-B … and so it starts. Time 12-24 months. YOu get the point.

What I would liek or hope to see happen is a slef-aware, self building and self propogationg organisaiton and I would expect over time as more positions become available the very bright and frustrated woudl move across to PS-B, this is the principal of Osmosis in aciton. Hoepfully we’d see the PS-B becoem balanced with PS-A and this create a nesscary dynamic.

Ther are a few outcomes.

1_ Balaqnce is reached.

2_ One consumes the other

3_ The spend all day downlaoding porn and with playing online gambleing :slight_smile:

Why do I think this will work. Well I think this has already been proven by the internet. Finally technology is providing people more effective means to actively self organise, especially those who are passionate for a myriad of reasons. You can only get the best results. We cannot ignore this massive repository of energy, it is worth infinitely more than a planet full of oil fields.

Thats all :unamused:

**Open Window wrote

Ah, so in effect a phage.
I wonder would a sodium pump be any addition to speed up the process.

Bertie B’Stard can. :angry: