What about London?

As it typical of our one-sided reporting in this country all I have heard recently is Shannon business owners this, Dromoland Castle that etc. What I want to know is how are the Londeners taking the news that their link to the richest country on earth’s third airport has been severed?

What about them I ask you…??

Yeah I think Londoners have set up a protest camp at Heathrow regarding this…https://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44054000/jpg/_44054994_plane2-pa-416.jpg

I am London based.

I think you would be surprised at how many business in the UK have links to the West of Ireland. This killer blow by Aer Orange will greatly affect not only current businesses, but potential business links in the future.

I really wish the Dublin centric media could see that. All this malarkey about Aer Orange being private would be out the window if they had threatened to scrap a few Dub - LHR routes.

It’s the death kneel for the west of Ireland. It’s that serious.

If it is in such demand surely someone could buy a slot and service it profitably? I’d say you could double what aerlingus was charging based on the amount of uproar there has been on them leaving.

No - your exaggerating the effects to the west - this is the second richest country in the world. Surely this is the death knell for London - shows over folks - pack it up.

In case you hadn’t noticed, the problem is that slots into and out of LHR aren’t exactly growing on trees.

Ireland isn’t just the Pale. A proper distribution of businesses throughout the country is needed. Building yet more roads, yet more rail links and another terminal in Jackeen land isn’t what’s required.

And you folks give out about commuter towns, and houses prices therein, in the Pale. A small bit of joined up thinking folks - maybe you would see the reasons for distribution of jobs throughout Ireland. That ain’t gonna happen if you have to tell Overseas Investor X that he has to fly to Heathrow, get his bags out, hop on a 2 hours bus journey to Stanstead and check in again, go though security etc.

I’m sorry but that seems more than a little melodramatic.

Yiz are ALL wrong - London is going to have to make itself a more attractive location for Shannon. Jeez!

Really?

Did you know that the early morning flight to LHR from SNN is called the Dell bus? In case you hadn’t realised, Dell is under serious pressure in the Limerick area. Are you telling me Dell exec’s aren’t going to be pi$$ed with this decision? Not only from a personal point of view (i.e moving staff around Europe / States / further afield) but how are they going to Express deliver spare parts all over Europe now?

I suppose the loss of 5,000 direct jobs, and 15,000 indirect jobs is too melodramatic as well?

That’s just ONE company.

I’m 100% with Fitzy, I worked with a large Semiconductor company in the Limerick region in the past and I fail to see how this won’t affect them big time.

I don’t know what should be done myself but I will say the biggest problem is the infrastructure deficit between Cork and Limerick. This is the Inter-Urban route that’s scheduled to be finished last (2014) and it’s one that could make a huge difference. Cork and Limerick are only 100km apart, if we had a decent road the airport thing wouldn’t even be that big an issue. And then you’d have the 2nd and 3rd largest metropolitan areas acting together as a counterweight to Dublin.

Of course if Shannon hadn’t cried wolf over so many things in the past our Jackeen posters wouldn’t be so cynical.

Dell wouldn’t dare leave Limerick, their Execs read the papers, they know what happens to people who turn their back on Stab City.

Obviously OP was toungue in cheek but just to add fuel to the debate it is worth noting that the load factors were good and it was profitable route.

Personally I think that this is Aer Lingus getting a toe-hold in UK and **not **a gesture towards a United Ireland.
IMO This is the beginning of the implementation of a bigger open skies strategy, is Belfast - LHR the endgame? I think not, Aer Lingus know what is coming to Ireland and have their eye on some JFK-LHR action… forget the old country, LHR slots are valuable and business is business.

Thank God the highly paid consultants not only foresaw the Ryanair takeover danger but sensibly ring fenced EI’s Irish LHR slots… not.

Edit : Having “thier” issues

Anyone think Dell might use this an an excuse to close the Limerick plant and move everything to Poland like people fear?

As opposed to broken Guberment promises, shit infrastucrture and rapidly declining competitiveness?

mmmm probably yeah.

The words “chickens”, “roosts” and “homes” immediately spring to mind. Any region/industry policy will inevitably end up like this. Encouraging the movement of capital and labour between regions or industries using tax and/or direct/indirect subsidy (as is the case all over Ireland) creates an extremely tenuous balance which, when economic shocks come, will result in inordinately large scale and rapid upheaval. In other words, if (in addition to the other massive subsidies to companies like Dell) the publicly owned Aer Lingus had not provided an effective subsidy to Shannon over the past many years, the region wouldn’t have become so artificially inflated with the amount of capital and in such bizarre large scale capital intensive foreign owned operations - which are wholly reliant on these subsidies.

A good analogy is giving jobs to your kids. Tell you 16 year old son you will give him €20 every time he washes the car. He will do it a couple of times a week most likely (despite the fact you only want/need it done once a week). Instead of doing other things (like finding a more economically justifiable job) he naturally spends too much time washing your car and pocketing the 20. This goes on until he is 19. He now does it three times a week and you decide that you are going to get rid of your car (and get a bike). Oh no!!! you can’t do that. Think of the unemloyment, think of your social responsibilities!! Well he wouldn’t be in this position if you hadn’t been subsidising him all those years. Moreover, keeping the car and continuing in the absurd charade is no solution nor helpful to him in any real way.

As to a point about load factors etc. above. This is pretty irrelevant. It is the potential return on the strictly limited Heathrow slots that is the issue here. The big Orange appear to have calculated that there is a higher marginal return on these valuable assets by running planes to Belfast, so they will. Demand into Shannon will in all likelihood be picked up by employing slots out of Gatwick, Stanstead, City by any number of airlines.

I have to say I find this whole Shannon debate so irritating. Aer Lingus as a plc is a profit-making organisation and just like any other profit-making organisation it seeks to maximise profits. If people/business in Shannon need a link to London then that’s their problem to deal with - it’s called supply and demand - remember this folks, re property etc!

Q. Would you be saying that if they were pulling the Dub - LHR flights and there was no alternative?

I mostly agree but I’d ask one question, what’s the point of the State holding 25% in the company then. If they’re not going to use it they might as well sell it and use the proceeds to clear some of the Cork Airport debt or speed up the building of the Cork - Limerick road or something like that which will actually improve the economic situation.

I think the important think is to be honest with oneself and realise and admit when one is talking from a VI and when talking more objectively.

Objectively, I wouldn’t complain and I would have faith that the market would win out and that service to London would contine, but maybe not in the ideal form for me personally.

From a VI stance I would whinge and whinge.

The Aer Lingus decision to abandon a PROFITABLE route clearly has political connotations. Having lived and worked in the Shannon area the air link to LHR as a hub to the restof the world is paramount to industry.

I think this is a very clear example of why , in certain cases , privatising a public service is bad. There was no need to privatise a profitable entity. After all the gov. raised just €400m. Hardly enough to pay the civil service wage bill for a month :cry:

Have no mistake , further development of the west by future employers will be on hold. They will look at Cork and Dublin in preference.

All this reminds me of Cromwell’s infamous phrase “To hell or to Connaght” :angry:

Know London execs ( non Irish) who will not go to Stansted and fly out of there to west of ireland. They will just make alternative plans and not invest in west of ireland.

London based folks fly around europe every week, they do not like flying more than they have to. They want to jump on the express and go to Heathrow. Do not under estimate the part that extreme hassle travel wise plays in executive decision making about investments.

Aer Lingus needs reform but there should be say minimum of 1 early morning flight to Shannon kept with return to Heathrow at say 6 or 7.

At least that way they could charge premium price but at least the service would be available.

In summary agree with most of Fitzy.