When is a landlord not a landlord?

You’ll like this one (AAM)

The phrase “you can’t be half pregnant” springs to mind.

I was just reading that. Its funny how the OP gets all thick with posters for informing him/her of their obligations.

“The downturn in the housing market is the best thing to happen to this country in a long time, and I’m fairly confident the innocent people like me who have been caught up in this mess because of “investors” like you will not get stung.”

I wonder how prevalent this way of thinking is?

“I made a bad decision and had some bad luck, surly I can’t get stung for it!”

i am not registered on that board so wont post there … however if some one who is wants to direct moggy to here , i will answer his questions.
hes is missing a HUGE point with regard to stamp duty , if he sells .
he is not too bad a shape as he thinks otherwise.

he doesnt have to register with the prtb until he has tenants. i dont think he realises this.

also he would be paying next to nothing in tax on the rent… if what he says is true and he is paying 10k a year on interest.

I think the posters main problems may be more intellectual than financial.
It appears he’s in negative equity and feels he can’t “afford” to sell. His comment that he might as well give the keys back to the bank is very telling.

For this type of person the idea of taking out a short term loan to cover their negative equity is a non runner. They think that property is a one way bet. If they end up in negative equity they should be able to give the keys back and get a do over.

If he had the property on the market for 8 months then he was trying to sell back at a time when the bottom hadn’t completely fallen out of the market. If he had been willing to drop by 15K or 20K more he probably could have sold. I know this, because I know people who have sold houses, even up until recently. It’s not a black art.

He could have done this even if he didn’t have 15K or 20K of equity (which would be a feat considering that between them he and his wife owned 2 GAFFS).

There’s a breed of person who can’t fathom that sometimes it’s better to take a loss of 15K now, rather than get into a bigger mess later.

Having missed that boat, he could possibly have figured out a way to raise some money by renting one of the properties, but given his choices with regard to selling he’d probably end up leaving the apartment on the market for another 8 months waiting for someone to pay enough rent to cover the entire mortgage payment. Again, not grasping when to take what you can get.

To make up the short fall this kind of person also thinks they should be able to avoid Stamp Duty clawbacks, Capital gains tax, and Income Tax.

They don’t even bother to figure out how much income tax they’d be paying. Probably little or nothing for quite some time if his interest bill is very high, and the properties haven’t been rented for the entire time they have been owned.

They assume they shouldn’t have to pay these taxes because being a landlord is something that happened to them, rather than something they wanted.

The bogus non resident accounts and other revenue investigations have tended to be people with money and a bit of cop on who actively tried to find ways of paying less tax.

I’m pretty sure the next big scandal will be property owners who got caught with their pants down when property prices fell. Many will have been too scared to look into their real position and find out that they aren’t in as bad a shape as they think.

But like a fear of dentists, this fear of figuring out their real position will only make things much much worse for them.

If you own properties and are tempted to try and make a bit of money from them while evading tax of any kind (Stamp Duty, CGT, Income Tax), for goodness sake go to a professional and face up to your situation.

It is probably not as bad as you think but if you try and stay under the radar things will end up so much worse than you can possibly imagine.

If you choose not to take this advice now, please don’t ring Joe Duffy in 3 to 5 years time when Revenue are taking your house(s) away and handing you a bill on top. I really don’t want to have to listen to you bleeting about what is and isn’t fair, when you’ve been warned well in advance.


Crikey this sounds almost exactly like my landlord.
After failing to sell ( at a crazy price) they decided to to rent it and try to keep it off the books. His attitude was that if he could not sell it now he could hang on and “make even more money”. :open_mouth:
He wanted to do everything in cash with no rent book and refussed to give my wife a receipt one month when I wasn’t there :angry:
How that would make a differnece when the phone, refuse and ESB were in our name I can’t fathom, but he believed it.

I had a chat and eventually made him see that he was now breaking the law in regards to our tenancy rights iresepective of his financial dealings. I think he is doing it all above board now, I pay him by direct debit, I told him to look into stamp duty claw back but he just looked at me blankly… :unamused:

The rent we pay would only furnish the mortgage on about 1/3 rd of the price they were asking so even taking into acount when he bought it it must still be costing them. I think he still believes that we are paying half his mortgage rather than him paying half our rent. We are paying on the high side as we moved when there was that big drop in rental availability early this year. We will move out at some point and then their yield is likely to go down again so I really can’t see a good way out of it for him.

Are you claiming relief?

you should claim it , as you are entitled to it.
im not sure you even need the LLs PRSI number anymore.
just apply for it.
if he is not registered with the PRTB then he will be scrwed… but thats not your problem.
if he really stared at you blankly about the SD then he might be in MAJOR trouble.
if he for instance bought that place as a home (and didnt pay SD or paid a lower rate of SD) and then moved out before 5 years was up , then they are liable to pay the SD on the full amount.

the only way he can get around this is by being dishonest. and being dishonest will get you in a lot of trouble with the revenue.

Not claiming rental relief. My tax is chaos due to too many international moves.
I know I’m entitled to it but I also know that while I have rental rights in Ireland they count for feck all. I was aware of that when I moved in and would prefer to not to cause chaos for my LL as that would result in me fighting with him and choosing to move out. ( I would don’t want to to rent from someone I can’t get on with)
I think he bought it as a second home so he may not have a SD issue but frankly that is up to him.
As far as I know he is paying tax right now and I am doing nothing to cover tracks for him and have done nothing wrong so can’t see how I would be in any trouble with the revenue. But if I am I’d like to know. :confused:

You can always wait until you move out to claim Rent Relief, 404.

I’m also assuming that The Revenue sting him in a discreet way, that would make pinning it on you hard to do. Granted, he may just assume it is you and react badly.

I still can’t believe so many LLs leave themselves open to getting caught on this. All it takes is one tenant, who really has no motive to keep quiet about it.

404 - if HE is dodging paying income tax that has nothing to do with u. you dont HAVE to claim rent relief , so again nothing for you to worry about with the revenue. as bugler says , just claim for it when you move out.

i agree bugler , all it takes is one ex tenant to hear about the rent-relief and claim it - then you are scrwd…

as for the SD thing , thats what will hit people if they dont realise what the rules are - as per the guy on that other web site ( the unwitting LL ).