Where's My NAMA = Marshall Plan (Irish style)

Forgive me but I’m still working through this analogy, and perhaps its too crude or just simply bad.

Post-WW2; Germany availed of sizeable US loans to rebuild its economy. Many of the Allies were against these loans and ‘forgiveness’ but it made sense in view of the larger threat from the East.

Here at home; many are looking for some form of forgiveness and others weighing in against this heavily. In particular look no further than some posters on this site, for the ultimate good of our society - is some form of ‘forgiveness’ allowable?

(I bear no particular axe - am in NE myself but afloat)

When you find someone who can afford to forgive the debt then proceed with the discussion.
Hint: it’s not the tax payer also known as the PAYE worker who either now or for the next three decades will have to pay for the forgiveness.

An extract from an article in the Guardian last year

Germans only remember the 1920’s, strange isn’t it?

Don’t lend money to spendthrifts.

I made a comment here a few months ago about a person known to me asking me to go guarantor for them so that they could purchase another car, their others(plural) having been repossessed.
I refused explaining that I didn’t think it was in their best interests to take on further debt especially as they had another vehicle available to them and their reasons for wanting the vehicle were not sensible.
They went off and got a loan for a portion of the purchase price off someone else and seller allowed them to take the car with them paying the rest owed when they had the money.
Skip forward a few months and this person’s financial situation has dis-improved from being quite grim to desperate. They can’t afford to pay the balance owing on the car, can’t afford quarterly motor tax, can’t afford insurance, can’t afford fuel.

I was quite annoyed with the person who facilitated by giving them a loan.

Don’t give irrational people or states cash. You aren’t doing them a kindness.

Forgiveness is meaningless without penence, no access to credit for a set period would be in everyones interest.

Absolutely.
I wish I could find where I saw it but there was citizens info about the new insolvency regime Q and A
Q"Will I be able to borrow again?
A “of course!”. It will all be wiped off your record in x years.

You shouldn’t get to borrow again if you go bankrupt or benefit from this ludicrous PIA charade that’s proposed.

A debt that can’t get collected won’t get collected. Fine. But no more leverage for you ever.

Indeed, if only.

This all pervasive attempt by the media, rogue banking fraudsters, and the usual hired talking heads to soften us up for selected debt forgiveness is a scam. Pure and simple. Comparing the over indulgent excess of Celtic Tiger Ireland to a marshall plan to attempt to deal with the very serious unstable aftermath of world war II and the holocaust is a laughable comparison, but sadly this is typical of the pompousness and hyperbole of the Celtic Tiger ‘i’m worth it generation’ even to this day.

You need a basic clean warm shelter, maybe 1,000 sq foot and 12-15k a year per person to survive. everything else is superflous and a non essential. You can live without it, and many are living this way and far far worse. they have no choice.

To ask the hard pressed paye worker to pay for past frivolous spending on foreign holidays, foreign apartments, minis, beetle convertables, spa breaks, gap years, whirlpools, boob jobs, extensions, gazebos etc etc, while old folk, young folk and the disabled are facing cut backs in basic care is fucking disgusting. Somebody had to say it.

I say to the debt forgiveness brigade, get over your fucking selves, and knuckle down to pay back the money you said you would. It’s a hard knock life and the world, including the germans, the Americans or anyone else hasn’t got the time, energy or resources to listen to your so called sob stories.

My point at the beginning was that debt-forgiveness has always been a feature in some form or other everywhere. Can our political masters ignore the calls for forgiveness? I would imagine that the voices calling for forgiveness will outweigh those such as yourself - on another forum, a TV producer had trouble finding someone who was willing to argue the point without the cloak of anonymity.

Weighing and venting as you are doing (anonymously) - is it generating more heat than light ? Will the debt-forgiveness brigade carry the day ?

Can you quote an example from the times of the DeMedicis or related to usury as was criticised in the bible? Supposedly the DeMedicis made sure to get adequate compensation if the pope or king of the day couldn’t repay their monies owed.
Kingdoms prospered or fell based on their ability to honour their debts.

I think you are engaging in revisionism. Historically loans were hard come by and honoured.

Also, it doesn’t appear anyone is offering cold hard cash to Ireland, just lines of credit which have to be repaid at rates of interest where there is argument as to whether the interest rate is penal or not.

Domestically I can’t see decent-numbers of people being turfed out of their homes - the Government under which this happens would be surely unelectable at the following GE. Therefore there must be some scheme to accommodate the defaulters - which the rest of us will pay for.

I think this is the price, this scheme, which we all will end up paying for - even if it as removed/remote from us as not letting the banks get back to normal operations (whatever ‘normal’ is).

I think the real issue forcing “debt forgiveness” is the rise in mortgage arrears. The banks know full well that the growing ranks of those in deep negative equity are begining to realise that they are wasting their time trying to pay a celtic tiger mortgage. In many cases they arent paying their mortgages and the bank are reluctant to move. This debt forgiveness lark is merely a marketing tool to convince the remaining compliants and those in recent arrears that there is light at the end of the tunnel. So in effect, as I see it, this is a taxpayer subsidy to assist the banks with higher collection rates.

It wont work as the money used for “debt forgiveness” will have to ultimately be taken from somewhere else in economy. I wouldnt be surprised if this is also a stalking horse for whoever has enda’s ear, it is well known that a huge chunk of the high earning proffessional/business classes are in deep trouble with property punts, this is Ireland, and I’d be disappointed if some sort of stroke wasn’t pulled on the back of the debt forgiveness movement.

I’m not sure how relevant the piece marked in bold is.
I’m curious. Do you think people in negative equity, but are able to pay their mortgage should get debt forgiveness?

Here we go again…
Can anyone tell me what is wrong with bankruptcy? If paying back your debts is making your life miserable, it seems to me this is the way to go, specially since we’re going to have a better legal framework in this particular regard before the end of the year…

Absolutely not. NE really has nothing to do with the whole argument. But where people are unemployed (say) and can’t pay their mortgages, I can see something needs to be done for these.

NE only matters when you sell. Irrelevant otherwise - I added it to show that I do have some stake, warranted or otherwise (which I believe) in the whole argument.