Who is responsible for the mess that we are in?

I am fed up of reading that “we all lost the run of ourselves” and “we all benefitted from the good times”. I am fed up of reading about people reinventing themselves as ‘seers’ who in retrospect saw it coming but at the time were cheerleading the ‘boom’. I am fed up of listening to people deny that they did anything wrong.

I propose a list of those with direct responsibility for the mess that we are in through personal or corporate greed, a list of those who were too stupid or ignorent to know what was going on despite receiving massive state and/or private sector salaries and a list of those who washed their hands of finding out more before agreeing to bailing out the banks.

It is important that a list of those culpable for the state of the nation is kept, for they will never see the inside of a court, but it is important that people remember who they are and what their role in the development of events are/were. Public knowledge and approbium may be the only reckoning that these people face. Many if not most will have featured on the Porpertypin over the last few years, but many have been keeping their heads down and living the good life waiting for an opportunity to re-invent themselves.

If the Mods feel that this is inappropriate, fair enough, but I would suggest Naming people only on the basis of their documented culpability, not on opinion or hearsay.

I would suggest sections such as :-

Politicians

Civil Servants

Bankers

Developers

Journalists

Economists

Lawyers

Organisations

Others

Lest we Forget

Good idea. But could I suggest maybe an Excel sheet on Google docs, with the categories you have suggested above, with also, fields for overview of how the person encouraged and furthered our social-economic delusions, the institution(s) they represented, their role(s) in those institutions, the degree to which they contributed (maybe a percentile mark or similar), links to threads here and elsewhere, links to ‘what they said’ (perhaps linked to oceanclub’s blog) etc. In other words, make the informaton clear, sunstantial, organi8sed, easily navigable, searchable, arresting, etc.

FF as voted for by the people.

And thus, the people.

Anyone that voted for FF over the last thirty years is responsible for it! Anyone that accepts the blatant corruption, and cute hoorism that is part of Irish lift. Anyone that voted in blatantly corrupt politicians of any party is responsible!

Everyone knew that most of the Taoiseach and ministers over the last few decades were, corrupt and grossly dishonest, but still voted for them.

In any society, or organization, the tone and culture is set by those at the top. In this country, people get to choose who is at the top. The country chose corrupt, incompetent, politicians over decades. The ones at the top were then, were either involved in all the crap that went on, or turned a blind eye and tolerated it.

There is no point in trying to blame bankers, civil servants, judges etc. without first looking at the politicians. The politicians get to choose the top bankers, civil servants etc. They chose incompetent people to fill those positions, because they were so incompetent themselves, that they were unable, or didn’t care enough to put competent people in those positions.

In a democratic republic, the people get the type of society that they want and deserve.

Conspicuously missing from that list are, Trade Union bosses who, through excessive wage demands, benchmarking etc., ensured our ultimate uncompetitiveness. Remember when the teachers demanded a 30% pay increase becaues they “created” the Celtic Tiger?

The Sociopaths and their arch dynamic counter the Psychopaths. So lets just call them the Alpha Jackals.

I agree Larry but I would also blame those people who voted for the opposition as well.

Including myself.

The people who waffle about ‘perfect’ coffee and discuss imported beers. (ahem)

People who bought an Audi when I recommended a Ford (telling me they ‘wouldnt be seen’ in a Ford) and now havent an arse in their trousers but wont get rid of the car.

People who spout shite about ‘synergies’, ‘blue sky thinking’ and that most hateful phrase ‘going forwards’.

Anyone who voted for Fianna Fail. Ever.

The beards and the Quango crowds who reckon they can hang of the states tit ad infinatum.

Did I miss anyone?

EDIT - Fucking idiots who, when some impending shit storm is pointed out to them say ‘Sure, what can I do about it?’ and when the shitstorm hits and you remind them that they were warned they say ‘Ah yeah, but…’

You hit a few nails on the head but what’s wrong with good coffee and beers?

Other countries have these without the clusterfuck that Ireland. It’s a bit like the “We all went mad” horseshit. Maybe you should have got the bus instead of buying a Ford if you really wanted to be smug.

I really agree with needles f*ing idiots point but the question is just what can we do about it because personally the amount of cute hoors, smug bastds, thicks and those with the ‘we were all in it’ line that I come across is astounding in this busted backwater.

I’d add people who use the term “cute hoors” whatever the fuck that means.
Such a shit term of endearment in some quarters.

I blame the language police.

The domestic wealthy
i.e. as Wolfe Tone said “The men of property”

Theres nothing wrong with good coffee or good beer.
Its the whole social pseudo-shiteology that goes with them; whats left unsaid.
“I’ve mastered everything and now I’m a person of leisure. I entertain myself with little follies. I have fuck all to do 'cause my staff run my life. Now lets discuss the merits of Java over kenyan.”

The attempt to differentiate generic products is just morkeshing bullshit.
Unfortunately the monkey, see monkey do crowd actually think there is some difference and affect these airs.
The same wankers would laugh at you if you talked about the difference between McDonalds and Burger king.
But coffee. Well, thats fucking different, isnt it?
Thats for smart people.
Like us.

[smug]Went one better, Slasher, got on the boat and went to England.[/smug]

The totally inept and useless Irish media and journalistic empires.
Investigative journalists who refuse to investigate.
People, (well, the majority) get all their information from da telly and the print media.
If they acted like imbeciles in the past few years,it’s down to the propaganda and subliminal messaging of our highly paid journalists and media figures. Brainwashing of the masses.

Brian Lenihan (cambridge finishing shool) for Sept 28th Guarantee, Mary Mcaleese for signing off (unconstitutionally on 2 occasions) the transfer of private debt to the public purse, Seanie Fitzpatric (opus dei maybe knights of malta) for doubling down via the Anglo derivatives book and Bertchenzo for being there through the mania.
And their employers (not electorate).

https://economicsweekly.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/ecb_1.jpg

The current mess has been in the making for a long time, there is not one individual you can point the finger and say: “it’s him, he’s the guilty one”. If you want to trace the history of the decisions that laid the groundwork for what is today’s situation then you will find many significant decisions were made before many of us were born. You could end up blaming a lot of people starting with the participants of the 1916 rising, the survivors of this event seized power in the wake of the collapse of the existing ruling class due to World War one.

Having nearly collapsed at the end of the 50s, the ruling class was forced to change and abandon their hold on the domestic economy and seek foreign capital and entry to the EEC. The ruling class over the past few decades has come to see the EEC/EC/EU as a one way ticket to access grants & cheap credit which is why there is very little resistance even now among them to ‘Brussels’. The goal of breaking the link with Sterling was expressly to access cheaper German loans to fund the Fianna Fail over-spending programs of the late 70s. That policy backfired spectacularly in the wake of the oil crisis and the October 1979 Paul Volker Saturday Night massacre, that led to the 1980s recession in Ireland. It also collapsed the 70’s farm land bubble here in Ireland, prices did not reach their previous highs for another 15 years afterwards and we had a credit crunch in the early 80s.

Fast forward through the various scandals such as Patrick Gallagher, PMPA, AIB/ICI bailout, VHI, the 1992-1993 ERM crisis and you will notice that no Government has ever tackled the root causes of these collapses and always put the citizens of this country on the hook for the bill. They did not even put up any objection to Ireland joining the EURO, it was a matter of ‘policy’, not to be questioned.

In 2011 no-one will lend to them, the EU/ECB/IMF is the crutch propping up the ruling class in this country. When they say exiting the EURO would undermine the fabric of our economy, what they really mean is they would lose their place at the trough and the benefits that accrue from that.

Membership of the Euro currency sank Ireland.The restoration of the Punt pegged to Sterling is Ireland’s only way out of this economic disaster.

Total rubbish. The advantages far outweighed the disadvantages. Very clearly.

But your implying that membership of the euro currency was somehow the switch for Irish gombeenism, and jobs for the boys, and mass delusion, and generally an abdication of individual critical faculties in favour of institutionalism and materialism and greed…

… well obviously we must still be in the throes of mass delusion and idiotic self-regard.

Membership of the Euro ment cheap money flooded into Ireland.This funded the property bubble which sank Ireland.This is a fact.We need to get out of the failed Euro currency and restore the Punt.This will happen.It’s only when Ireland sinks to economic Armageddon that the politicians will finally do what they should do now.The EU project has been a disaster for Ireland.Politicians know it but they can’t admit all their cheer leading for The EU project,Vote Yes to niece etc was bullshit so they cling to the hope Brussels will save Ireland.Fools.