Who Owns Dublin?

[Kate_P]

Came across this suggestion at creativeireland.com (thanks to WGU on another thread for the link.)

@kafka

There should be a map of Dublin that replaces all the buildings names with the names of the developers and pension funds that really own it.

Another poster suggests that Dublin City Council already has such a thing - though I doubt it includes the pension funds.

It would be a useful resource for a place such as this…

[Open_Window]

Funny the boys and gals on creative many years ago didn’t want to know. How things have changed…

[BlameGame]

Does no one have a copy of Thom’s directory?
It definitely has residential owners I remember looking up my own street. I can’t recall if it has commercial owners too?

[slasher]

@BlameGame

Does no one have a copy of Thom’s directory?
It definitely has residential owners I remember looking up my own street. I can’t recall if it has commercial owners too?

Don’t forget the Royal College of Surgeons owns a good chunk of Grafton St - some within the institution as well as * some by associated medics

nice to have charitable status…*

[jcsmith]

If ownership data was freely available from the Land Registry / Registry of Deeds it might well have spin-off economic benefits. Compare this current article in Wired:
wired.com/magazine/2011/03/s … free_data/

[the_clientele]

@slasher

@BlameGame

Does no one have a copy of Thom’s directory?
It definitely has residential owners I remember looking up my own street. I can’t recall if it has commercial owners too?

Don’t forget the Royal College of Surgeons owns a good chunk of Grafton St - some within the institution as well as * some by associated medics

nice to have charitable status…*

This was on the news a while back… irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire … 99703.html Could be relevant? It’s pretty nifty - when you’re walking around town, you just point your smart phone at a building and it tells you whether it’s in NAMA or not and the developer’s name (I don’t have a smartphone myself, boo!).

Get the lay of Nama-land with an ‘app’

FRANK McDONALD, Environment Editor

ANYONE WITH a smart phone who wants to know what properties in Dublin we effectively own through Nama can now download an “app” to find them. And unlike Nama, which has cost us €54 billion (so far), the NAMAland app comes free of charge.

Devised by Dubliner Conor McGarrigle, who is doing a PhD in creative arts, NAMAland is described as “an augmented reality app which lets you see properties in Dublin owned by Nama”. It will work on the Layar browser for iPhone and Android devices.

“At NAMAland we like to look on the bright side,” Mr McGarrigle says in his blurb on www.walkspace.org/namaland. “Okay, the downside of Nama is that it’s costing you €54 billion, the upside is that you now own some of the best (and worst) properties in Dublin.”

By holding up your phone as you travel through Dublin, the app shows the location of nearby Nama properties by superimposing a cartoon NAMAman icon on them, showing the location of each property, the developer, its distance from you and can even give you directions. There is no official list of properties for which Nama owns the debt.

[Howitzer]

@jcsmith

If ownership data was freely available from the Land Registry / Registry of Deeds it might well have spin-off economic benefits. Compare this current article in Wired:
wired.com/magazine/2011/03/s … free_data/

Testify.

[Open_Window]

@Howitzer

@jcsmith

If ownership data was freely available from the Land Registry / Registry of Deeds it might well have spin-off economic benefits. Compare this current article in Wired:
wired.com/magazine/2011/03/s … free_data/

Testify.

While I love the idea as an avid kid sim city freakazoid… they already give you the data to their corporate cronies.

You think you data is private?

HA!

I for one welcome concepts as this would further along the reality of humanity as self organizing creative organisim for a greater purpose but this line between private and public will have to blur 100% for it to have any great benefit.

For me Jobs is a clever pretext

[Aston]

@slasher

@BlameGame

Does no one have a copy of Thom’s directory?
It definitely has residential owners I remember looking up my own street. I can’t recall if it has commercial owners too?

Don’t forget the Royal College of Surgeons owns a good chunk of Grafton St - some within the institution as well as * some by associated medics

nice to have charitable status…*

Nice conspiracy but the IT did a who owns grafton street spread around 10 years ago and no sign of the RCSI anywhere - although they do own some property around the college itself. As to how “associated medics” could hold property under the RCSI’s charitable status - or what an arrangement for controlling a property through a compliant medic would look like - I will leave that to your fevered imagination to explain.

[captainchaos]

There is a big difference between owning the freehold and the leasehold of a property…one only has to look at the Pembroke Estate, the Darley Estate etc.

Whilst these in theory may own the property (ie the freehold) this value may be negligible as the value is in the leasehold which in some cases could be a 999 year lease at a nominal rent of a few pounds!!

[slasher]

@Aston

Nice conspiracy but the IT did a who owns grafton street spread around 10 years ago and no sign of the RCSI anywhere - although they do own some property around the college itself. As to how “associated medics” could hold property under the RCSI’s charitable status - or what an arrangement for controlling a property through a compliant medic would look like - I will leave that to your fevered imagination to explain.

Calm down

Charitable Status referred to the RCSI, not any associated consortia, thought that was obvious.

I thought I saw the college mentioned in the IT Commercial Property supplement not too long ago in relation to a transaction in the general Grafton St - area though I don’t recall if they were buying or selling

If they don’t own anything on Grafton St then I stand corrected, you have my humblest apologies; it’s hardly Jim Corr-esqe to mix up Stephen’s Green and Grafton St? Especially when dealing with non-core trophy buildings

I think it’s fair to say the RCSI has assessed a significant portfolio much of it at bubbly prices, which while not quite in the DDDA league now looks somewhat incongruous

historical-debates.oireachtas.ie … 30006.html

I have tabled these amendments to highlight what I regard as the anomaly regarding the charitable status of the RCSI. This status allows it to avoid stamp duties, corporation tax, capital gains tax and capital acquisitions tax, while corporate and personal donations to the college are tax-deductible.

If the RCSI were legally a corporation rather than a charity, it would have incurred stamp duty of 4.5 million on its purchase of the Ardilaun Centre on St. Stephen’s Green. The college agreed at the time to pay Green Properties 75 million for the Ardilaun Centre in December just before the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, raised the stamp duty to 9%. The stamp duty that applied prior to that was 6%. I could go further into detail regarding the college’s extensive properties in this city. It just so happens that this is the first raft of amendments in the very limited time open to me. Suffice to say that the Revenue Commissioners are on public record as saying they are not aware of any other charitable trust in Ireland that owns a property development comp

thepost.ie/story/text/eygbojmhgb/

03 January 2010 By Susan Mitchell

The Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland wrote down its net assets by €72million in **2008 **- a fall of 44 per cent on the previous year.

In its annual report, the RCSI, which is a non-profit organisation, said the decrease was mainly due to the fall in the market values of ‘‘investment properties, an increase in the pension deficit and the operating deficit for the year’’.

As well as running courses in subjects including medicine, pharmacy, dentistry and physiotherapy, the RCSI also has an extensive Irish property portfolio. It includes a series of buildings around St Stephen’s Green, Dublin, and at the end of the Luas line in Sandyford, Co Dublin. Some of the properties are used for college purposes; the remainder are leased out.

In its annual report, the college stated that management was confident that the property values would be maintained over the long term. The RCSI recorded a net deficit of €3 million in the year to the end of September 2008, compared to a surplus of €3 million for the same period the previous year.

independent.ie/business/iris … 04766.html
independent.ie/unsorted/prop … 30753.html

According to the college, there will also be a new road traversing the site which will make it an island development with four storeys containing 130,000 sq ft.

The Royal College of Surgeons has been active in property development over the last three years completing several in-fill schemes, including the £12m car park and small hotel on its perimeter as well as the development of 110-bed units at Mercer Court student residence. The college tends not to dispose of property once developed

irishtimes.com/newspaper/com … 08313.html
let.ie/commercial-property/2 … blin/43867

[BoyRacer]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6179&p=50534&#p50534

[Raketemensch]

@BlameGame

Does no one have a copy of Thom’s directory?
It definitely has residential owners I remember looking up my own street. I can’t recall if it has commercial owners too?

Is there any legal reason to stop someone putting a rip of Thom’s online? Is there anything copyright or IP in it?

[jcsmith]

@Raketemensch

@BlameGame

Does no one have a copy of Thom’s directory?
It definitely has residential owners I remember looking up my own street. I can’t recall if it has commercial owners too?

Is there any legal reason to stop someone putting a rip of Thom’s online? Is there anything copyright or IP in it?

Long story short, yes. Google database rights for a starting point. Then google James Boyle FT database rights and prepare to get annoyed.

[chaingang]

mmmmmmmmmmm…let me see…WE JUST BOUGHT DUBLIN AND IT WAS WAY OVERPRICED…