Why isn't electricity cheaper?


#21

Nuclear is not the option for about a million reasons, not far from the top being the fact that it would take about 50 years to actually get one designed and built in this country, and it would be just as expensive as oil gas or wind power when you take into account the long term costs involved in storing waste and decomissioning nuclear power stations


#22

Thanks EC I didn’t know that.

Explains why France has the most expensive electricity in Europe (they are 80% nuclear).

Thanks again, live and learn.


#23

Don’t get sidetracked. We used to have cheap electricity and we have never had Nuclear.
The gouging is going on elsewhere.


#24

Ah the misconception raises it’s head again and it only took 4 days.

See here viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17428&p=189013&hilit=+esb#p189013

Sidewinder wrote:
As you said, electricity/energy costs are insane, again because of a lunatic FF/PD scam to raise the prices so that the ESB would be attractive to a private buyer.

Common misconception that, but when a lie gets repeated enough folk tend to believe it. The reason for the sudden huge increases and the previous low prices for leccy in Ireland all come down to governmental irresponsibility.

There was no rise in the price of electricty in Ireland between 1986 and 2000ish. The ESB take was even worse than that as the VAT level was increased and ESB absorbed the rise. Now I don’t know what the combined inflation over that period was but in real terms prices went absolutely thru the floor. The reason why? Minister for energy set the price and obvoiusly no-one wanted to be the lad to do the right thing, what with some bad headlines coming your way shortly afterwards. The result? The Irish network was run into the ground, everyone still got paid and the lights were kept on just about, but no upgardes/improvements to cater for increasing demand took place and necessary maintenance ignored. Come 2000ish the whole system was in very very dangerous condition and most regions of the country in a dangerous state with ageing inadequately sized infrastructure. Around this time the CER (energy regulator) was set up, mostly due to the need to comply with EU laws. One of its first new duties to set electricity prices. Now looking at the state of the system and the need to keep the lights on in a safe manner and cater for ever increasing demand the regulator sanctioned huge price increases. Obviously every politico could wash their hands of it and rail against the regulator due to a problem they themselves created. It’s because of all this that €5 billion had to be spent in the past decade on refurbishment.

Yes, Irish prices should be lower but all things being equal our prices have to be dearer than elsewhere due to a small island population (poor economies of scale), the very dispersed nature of Irish houses (need ing more wires to be built and maintained) and the lack of both nuclear and cheap easy to get hydro power compared to some of our neighbours.


#25

That’s completely false. France has amongst the cheapest electricity in Europe despite EDF being a pretty inefficient operator. This is because it has so much nuclear.

Critics would argue that it’s a false economy because no-one is paying for the de-commisioning up front but as things stand they have relatively speaking very cheap leccy.


#26

my first post after my introduction. wanted to share this, especially about the average poolbeg salary which is old news

Fury as ESB workers are awarded pay hike

independent.ie/national-news/fury-as-esb-workers-are-awarded-pay-hike-1605911.html

this was on housepricecrash.co.uk earlier today but I cant find the exact link right now

which.co.uk/news/2009/01-jan/british-gas-bills-coming-down-167302.jsp


#27

Your irony detector needs adjusting.


#28

Don’t you think?


#29

:smiley: Stick around and get used to the views of some of the posters before you take them at face value. As has been noted elsewhere, there’s no sarcasm emoticon. It’s probably just as well, as Bungaloid would have it worn the colour pixels to b&w by now.

edit: if it walks like a duck and quacks like it duck, it might actually be a canard! :laughing: Now see what you’ve done. Mrs. YM wants to know why I am laughing madly at my own joke!


#30

Isn’t electrical work the most likely job to kill you, statistically? I’m pretty sure it is near the top.

How much would you settle for to play a game of Russian roulette? Minimum wage?

Privatisation: that’s all we need: RyanESB. Using the toaster once might cost you €3,047 or €0.01, depending on how far ahead you plan to make a toasted sandwich and place your order on their website, which will cost you €78.5 a minute to access because you decided at the last minute to use your laptop. At least Bord gais will do well and the long-moribund Irish candle industry will revive.


#31

Actual construction time for a Nuclear reactor is 5-6 years. The problem is approval for the planning. We can blame no-one else but ourselves for that. The Irish are world-class nimbys in addition to their other ‘qualities’. We still haven’t built a decent industrial incinerator, because of this, so instead Multinationals have to ship waste to Scandinavia to be properly disposed of.

Yet again its piss-poor education that leads to the myth that somehow Coal, Oil & Gas power generation is somehow less harmful or dangerous than Nuclear, when any objective review of the statistics shows exactly the opposite.

The problem of the cost of Decommissioning is only a problem because the self-same interests that are opposed to Nuclear have placed so many obstacles in front of any development for the most viable options. After all if the safety argument holds no water, at least they can fall back on the money argument.

At the moment the only option that’s allowable is storage. Not surprisingly storage for between 100 & 1,000 years is expensive. There are a number of very promising alternatives that would dramatically reduce the problems of decommissioning, but the most exciting option has been blocked since the 1970’s.


#32

Not much more dangerous than being a construction worker. Less dangerous than being a farmer. And what any given person would do the job for is irrelevant - if we paid more than the minimum necessary to fill every vacancy with a qualified applicant we paid too much, and stole from taxpayers. Considering the salary quoted at the start of the thread I’d say that we overpaid.


#33

Pat Kenny gave his good friend Eddie O’Connor a section on his show again today to plug wind turbines.

Eddie explained that wind power available all the time, because its always windy somewhere!

“On a windy night we can charge our electric cars!”, Pat interjected.

Eddie says wind power “is free and creates loads and loads of jobs”.

He even gave numbers - 3 jobs per MW installed! If we build 10GW of wind, thats 30,000 permanent green jobs!
For example, green jobs will be created digging up bog habitats for the turbines!

The free green electricity will make us really competitive for power intensive industries like aluminium smelting and server farms.
Lots of industries will locate here for the free electricity.

Also, tourists will flock to places like connemara and kerry to see all the turbines!

I know some liars on “thepropertypin” say wind is a corporate welfare scam. :imp:

We are really, really lucky we have visionary geniuses like Eddie O’Connor, Eamonn Ryan and Pat Kenny to tell the truth.

*Wind power is the answer to everything. *


#34

Poolbeg = €142,000 average. So lets be generous and say €62k average. Thats €80k per head saving. Just think of the pensions that are drawn out of the ESB.

The unions are the reason we have the highest electricity costs. This is what happens. Unions have power, abuse power. Govt will offload and in 10 years the average Poolbeg worker is on €35,000 employed by some German power company. We go from one extreme to the other.

Half of us did vote FF so guess we cannot complain.


#35

“Abuse of power in the ESB” There’s a job for you in the tabloids. :laughing:


#36

Seriously though, I know a retired ESB electrician who is getting more per week from his pension than almost anyone I know who is working!


#37

We can’t have nuclear I’m afraid - since they won’t let relatively well run states like North Korea and Iran have it they’d be stone made to let the two Brains get their hands on some thing as dangerous as this.


#38

Wind power generated here would help reduce our reliance on oil imports as well as reducing our carbon footprint.

Sensitivity of peatbogs is obviously vitally important in the equasion.

clifftop turbines with seawater pumping for storage looks like a very good solution to me.

I have no problem spoiling the view on top of some of our cliffs to reduce our dependance on oil.

The revenue and profits however should be kept by the irish people with perhaps some scheme like germany and denmark where locals in the area receive reduced power prices of a dividend from having these turbines in their vacinity,

merely allowing some big conglomerate rip us off would be no use what so ever.


#39

Wind power generated here would help reduce our reliance on oil imports as well as reducing our carbon footprint.

Sensitivity of peatbogs is obviously a vitally important consideration.

clifftop turbines with seawater pumping for storage looks like a very good solution to me.

I have no problem spoiling the view on top of some of our cliffs to reduce our dependance on oil.

The revenue and profits however should be kept by the irish people with perhaps some scheme like germany and denmark where locals in the area receive reduced power prices of a dividend from having these turbines in their vacinity,

merely allowing some big conglomerate rip us off would be no use what so ever.


#40

In principle you could power the entire grid this way if enough sites were available. No question.

How much would this cost?

My estimate is that a pumped storage solution would cost about 500Bn.

What’s your estimate?