Wider tax net to catch low-paid

timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 144942.ece

About flamin time, there were almost 950,000 people with earnings of about €9bn that did not pay any income tax, levies, etc. in 2008.

The only word of caution to Lenihan would be lets not make people miserable with this. We for one (and we pay a large tax bill) are ok with the amount of tax we now pay, so a resonable tax rate with the first €10k completely tax free progressing up to 50%, I include PRSI/Levies etc in that 50% btw, but I am a firm believer that we all should contribute, so even €8k over the €10k would cost the person on min wage €833 pa at 10% and €1250 at 15%.

Erm, 950,000 with earnings of 9bn… make the first 10k tax free… wonder what they earn on average… wonder what the tax take would be… I’m guessing just a little bit more than not much.

edit: the point is that without big tax raises which grossly affect many more, we are not going to raise much.

Is that true? There are only 1.3-1.4 million people in employment in this country aren’t there?

More deck chair management. Why?

Well because everyone who earns and spends money here pays tax. TAX is TAX. Lets not get our knickers in a twist. The lower income earners are already unfairly taxed in comparison with higher income earners. The higher income earners are in a sense VAT subsidised by the lower income earners.

I think it will hit VAT, yes one of those brutally crude consumptive taxes, meaning revenue’s diverting one tax income stream into one pan in favor of another pan. If I am not wrong VAT came a close second to Income tax one year and the pattern has held.

There may be no net benefit to this exercise. A dramatic depressive force is already applied to the consumptive side of the equation.

This will also create a “competitive” dilemma for those denzines of “competition”. Wider TAX base means demand for higher wages to offset real income loss to revenue which mean not a downward pressure on income but an upward pressure. So you can bet that the minimum wage will a) not be touched b) considered to be raised c) raised.

This is more drip drip Irish water torture. These fucking idiots (yes a technically scientifically correct term) are hell bent on killing, choking and vaporising us all.

Right now Ireland is held to ransom by a higher administration of disconnected self absorbed critically disconnected entities mainly enamored by their own superior middle of the road vitality, a few bankers and money markets who see an easy con.

Like I said it about a Bus load of people who had driven this island to its death bed. On your knees kiddies.

Notice the 2008 reference, there were 2.2million working then, the information I’m using is what Joan Burton demanded from the Government in Oct 2008, and published by IT on March 5th 2009, Colm Keenan wrote the story.

The offical figures are about 1.8m at the moment.

Do you pay VAT in the black economy?

Anyhoo, with any movement of water between the buckets there is likely to be spillage… Windfall tax on penny jars says I…

I can’t accept this argument, those on higher earnings will pay more vat in real terms as they earn more, and in general spend more due to the type of things they buy, big ticket items, the lower earners do not subsidise higher income earners.

I do accept that VAT could suffer, if tax was introduced, but I cannot see how we will emerge from this unless there is collective responsiblity, on your point of the Min wage, at €8.65 ours is higher than Germany and ASFAIK it comes into the tax net.

But where a person earns the min wage they earn €17500, I find it unacceptable to tax someone earning less than €10,000 pa.

Sure is it not a bit unfair to leave people out in the cold? Bring them into the tax net with the rest of us where its warm, let them don the green jersey and take one up the arse for Ireland with the rest of us. Sure its only fair, isnt it? :sick:

Maybe so, but you are not going to get much from even a 20% tax on income over 10k.

Ye all know that if a system of tax is inequitable there will be avoidance, also a person would probably be better off on the dole should the tax rate be too high, we want people to work and pay a fair level of tax.

To me thats what a civilised society should be.

I think 20% simply to high, mind I think tax allowances need to be looked at also.

Well I don’t believe in the black economy should be illegal :wink:

Both VAT and Income revenue is lost in this scenario, a double whammy. Smart kids up in Finance. The brightest I believe.

Heretic.

Didn’t mean to include the “in” there.

There is only economy and its mostly “economy of the truth” when it comes to policy.

Thats an awful rebuttal of my point. Do you feel hard done by or sorry for “high earners” who have maybe is it, a patriotic duty to buy these big ticket items?

Neither, but lower earners do not “subsidise” higher earners VAT is 13.5% and 21% its the exact same for everyone, but if you spend more due to higher earnings you pay more VAT.

I never suggested that it was a patriotic duty.