Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?


#509

At least Apple still exists to possibly reclaim tax from. The investment vehicles for S110 will disappear in to the ether by the time the E.U. get around to reviewing them.


#510

TTIP blowing up.

US fines VW.

EU fines Apple.


#511

This is huge and I am loving it. Chickens finally coming home to roost etc…


#512

You could build 52,000 council houses for that.


#513

i.imgflip.com/19qlys.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator


#514

Why are you giving them newspapers ideas for headlines :laughing:


#515

I don’t understand the official policy on this at all.

We have selective tax agreements with various foreign companies. The EU have found that at least one of these amounts to “undue tax benefit” and back tax should be paid. Official Ireland denies this ruling. They are going to lodge an appeal.

Apparently its up to Revenue to decide on the actual back taxes to be levied on Apple. Why don’t we just “settle” with Apple for a couple of hundred million? This is piss money to Apple. We don’t have to agree with the ruling. Just do what the UK did with Google - settle and the headlines will go away in a week or so.
Lodge an appeal and its guaranteed to be in the news for the next couple of years until the appeal is heard? Plus the political fall out will continue until the next GE.


#516

I think it’s because they’ll have to start paying tax on future profits too that’s the problem.


#517

The rules changed in 2014 so future profits are not an issue. We can’t just “settle” for a small amount. That’s what the whole ruling is about. We have to charge Apple the same as other companies were charged. Which is €13bn plus interest.


#518

We’re in the money, we’re in the money…!!!

FF blew it…Enda gets a large whack of it back. Fair play Enda…it’s Mayo’s year! :laughing:


#519

If a rule change ensured this is cleaned up in the future for Apple and any other company surely the official stance should be to go for whole €13bn, albeit it might be advantageous to appear reluctant.

I would have thought the only reason to be so horrified at receiving such a gigantic windfall was that it might harm future investment decisions?


#520

Are you sure? As it currently stands I don’t think the EU can impose a tax penalty for a member state - it’s up to the individual state to run their own taxation. Until there is tax harmonisation across the EU that is.


#521

The State already “settled” with Apple when these arrangements were set up originally. The point is that this has been deemed to be illegal state aid, so another small settlement would also be illegal state aid.

The policy is quite simple and consistent (excepting S110 vultures). Company with no profitable operations in Ireland negotiates tax-free deal with Irish govt on the basis that the alternative is to locate elsewhere (and therefore also pay no Irish tax). Irish govt agrees to it on the basis that it might employ a few accountants and attract other taxable activity (other explanation is that State is captured by accountants/law firms).

Of those two explanations I find the second one more compelling (there might also have been actual corruption i.e. brown envelopes, who knows) since I really don’t see that a few million in tax is worth the diplomatic hassle, although presumably at the time the arrangements were set up the loons thought they could get away with it on the basis that tax affairs are sovereign.

At this stage it’s hard to see why the Irish govt should appeal in the face of 19bn or whatever. There’s no way that a reputation as a tax haven is worth 19bn. I don’t know whether there’s some perverse honour thing going on, it’d be a first in politics.

Maybe this is all a total sham and the Irish govt are secretly colluding with the Eurocrats “oh no, please don’t make us take the money” with a view to keeping both the money and their reputation intact once the appeal gets rejected.

Feels a bit like the ending to Shallow Grave.


#522

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-2923_en.htm

Clear political motivation in the press release - the commission are really on the warpath here:

  • deliberately confusing two issues - state aid via special arrangements for one company (everyone can agree on that) vs. the generalities of tax reflecting economic reality of transactions (on which there is substantially more debate)

  • outright encouragement to other countries to retroactively tax Apple sales in their own country (they are recorded in Ireland at the moment), dangling the carrot of getting some of this money if they do.


#523

:laughing:


#524

Right, so basically it’s going to be an EU/US slush fund.


#525

13bn is the roughly the amount of money that the CDU/Angela will bribe the electorate with in tax cuts to try to win the next election based on what I heard on the radio yesterday.
In general the people of other European countries pay higher taxes so that multinationals and the low skilled in Ireland don’t have to.


#526

13bn euros in back tax Ireland told to recover from Apple is same as country’s health budget


#527

Could Apple setup a “Vulture fund” and just buy out NAMA or somehow channel their money into Irish property :smiley: and then not pay anything.


#528

Apple is different from MS, Google, Facebook et al and their tax evasion scams. Apple were playing silly buggers, Too clever by half. According to US rules they were not US tax domiciled. According to Irish rules they were not tax domiciled in Ireland. They were a Heisenberg tax entity. Always domiciled somewhere else to wherever you looked.

This is not tax avoidance, this is tax evasion. And the EU ruled against Ireland because it was a state sanctioned competitive advantage, against EU rules. Once the US harmonizes its corporation tax rate with the rest of the western world all this will go away. So the Irish government will be praying for a Hillary win because she plans to give US corps even more reason to do this stuff whereas Trump wants to drop the rates to something sane and finally end all this stupidity. High US corp tax rates have nothing to do with tax revenue and everything to do with Dem party populist class bating. Just electioneering. US corp tax rate revenue has been on a downward curve for the last 30 years (as a percentage of total) due to the massive distortions caused by the current tax rates. If you were a corp like Apple would you pay at least US 45% tax on your net profit? Or almost net US 65% tax on dividend distributions? For all world income.