Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?


#589

From that I can only assume you were employed by an Irish company rather than one of the big bad multinationals :slight_smile:


#590

No, no idea. I only ever spoke to a foreman. I hadn’t a concern for the workings of the big bad world back then, just didn’t want to be on the dole. Do you have a point?


#591

Well at least the FT article has a bit more depth and indicates the full ruling is not yet published. Maybe I’ll eat my words when that happens.


#592

Ah, just a poor lad up from the country with little or no skills looking to make his way in the world :slight_smile:

My point was that you stated MNC do not create high paying jobs and backed this up with an anecdotal story about your time working for what appears to have been an Irish contractor.


#593

You are reaching there to try to undermine me by pointing out that I was working in a woefully poorly paid job in the ultimate service of a a multi-national.
BTW in '95 you didn’t have to be unskilled to have no job.


#594

:unamused:

The purpose of my post was to highlight the inconsistency of your arguement.

From my own experience in 1995, a semi skilled manufacturing operative working for an Irish employer earned somewhere in the region of £7-10k p.a. depending upon the industry and shift allowances.


#595

Since I can’t identify my Employer beyond them being contractors for Microsoft I think your point falls a bit flat, don’t you?


#596

It doesn’t need to be only apple. I just needs to be some form of favoured treatment. Would be as bad if they gave the good rates to all firms and penalised one or a small number. Also illegal if they favoured a few companies.

So absolutely no need to know it’s only apple. Enough to know apple was sweetheart and that many other companies were not. If another firm got sweetheart too then that means another settlement to be reached.

Lot of dumb folk in apple and revenue it seems writing letters etc.,


#597

Dipole’s central point seems to be that a great many MNC jobs are yellow pack. They were then. They are now. Do people actually dispute this ? is this so controversial ?

New crime in Ireland - MNC Blasphemy


#598

:laughing:

Very well put.


#599

I remember being embarrassed by recommending that a recently unemployed friend of mine get a job with my current employer in another department and then discovering the wage they paid. You wouldn’t have kept a Budgie in birdseed on what they were paying.


#600

BTW it’s worth re-reading the EC’s original request for information from the State (which I posted to page 21 of this thread), which sets out all the claims in detail. Long but worth a read.

ec.europa.eu/competition/state_a … 4_87_2.pdf

In other words, Revenue agreed that they would tax ASI based on their local costs, not their profits.


#601

Quick question:
If it takes Ireland/Apple about 5 years to appeal today’s decision, and the money sits in an Irish controlled account until then… can Ireland just roll-over that 13Bn at 2% p.a. and pick up 250M a year while this plays out?
It’d be 1.25Bn minimum over 5 years!


#602

Interest would accrue to the eventual winner I would imagine.


#603

What about at negative rates?!


#604

Apple can keep it in one of their apple pay digital wallets…shure it is better than a bank.


#605

It looks like FG want to appeal against raising 13 billion (plus interest) that the once eternally wise EC has told them…if they thought water charges were a tough sell on the doorsteps! 1% effective tax rate after telling everyone they were fighting to defend 12.5% !

They need their heads examined. Marching to electoral doom on the hundredth anniversary of the Somme.

The only grace is that FF and Labour are rowing in. Yes f**king Labour want to not collect corporation tax

Noonan is trying to steamroll a quick cabinet decision. If IA are smart they’ll delay ask for a Dail debate, and start asking whether this whole debacle is an example of Regulatory Capture, which to me it is.

Another thing to mention - The Irish Taxation system has been stuck in a sick malaise for at least the last 20 years that the Big 4 firms write/suggest huge swathes of the Finance Act each year.

Edit - remembering the concerted briefing campaign about how inept Shane Ross was on Brazilian thing it will be interesting to see whether Noonan get x thousand a lashing from INM and the IT for a thousand times bigger f**k up on his watch


#606

I’m not the biggest fan of Noonan but I don’t see how he is responsible for this. Apple isn’t the first corporations that’s been called out for tax avoidance recently , hopefully Ireand can negotiate the bill down. Yes it is slightly perverse but we have benefited greatly from investment from multinationals and need to protect this.

All that being said things are changing and Ireland and these global multinationals are going to have to get with the program now.


#607

DoF responsible and previous MoFs perhaps more than noonan. If you’re going to set up competitive tax, you mess up when you then wander into state aid rules. This could have been done and kept within tax domain and the case couldn’t have been brought. However, folk messed up.

It is, however, perverse that anyone would now be saying ‘I hope the bill gets reduced’. Whether the bill is EUR 1 or eur11bn if the judgement stands then we can’t do this sweetheart favouritism going forward. Nothing in this that stops competitive tax rates. Just can’t play favourites.


#608

I always laugh when ministers are questioned about EU investigations into Government activities and they usually respond with bluster and dismiss the question out of hand. Here’s one for posterity

Noonan confident Apple Tax offering does not breach rules

irishtimes.com/business/econ … -1.1838848

Plenty more to be found around Irish Water borrowing off balance sheet, Suspension of water charges and Minimum alcohol pricing. For all the EU’s faults I love them for giving our parish pump corporate whore politicians a kicking every now and then.