Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?


#625

Lets see who was in power in 1991…

Oh, it was Charles Haughey. Enough said?

The Apple deal in 1991 came about because it had a manufacturing plant in Cork and the Apple of the time was a traditional computer company that had yet to been restructured as a pure law breaking, tax evasion corporation. That happened after Jobs stabbed Amelio in the back and fired everyone who was not a yesman or cult member. MS was the pure law breaking tech company back then. The Apple of the time did engage in some interesting tax maneuvers. I’m thinking of the very expensive CPU’s in suitcases stories. Plus odd things happened in Singapore. But on the whole it was just another computer hardware company with healthy margins, especially on peripherals. Nothing too creative on the tax front.

Jobs (like Gates) was a criminal psychopath, he believed that laws never applied to him, so Apple was restructured in his image. Thats all you need to know about Apple and how it has operated over the last 20 years. My guess is that the '91 deal was not really used as a major conduit for world income until the 2000’s when Apple became a consumer electronics company with unfeasibly large net margins.

There was nothing unusual about the Revenue deal. It happened all the time. If you were a company / entity with high net income and who could relocate your income destination at little cost or disruption then you would get to see the warm cuddly side of Revenue. Where a bunch of the (very) senior guys would turn up to the meeting and would open with “Now what can we do for you? How can we be of help?..” with their most winning smiles.

I’m definitely reaching for the pop corn on this one. With a bit of luck we night even get a RICO out of it. Now that would be fun. Maybe someday the name Jobs will be bracketed with Maxwell as examples of the utterly nasty face of capitalism.


#626

And we had three Finance ministers in 1991:

  • Albert Reynolds
  • Charlie Haughty (acting)
  • Bertie Ahern

And then when it was renewed in 2007:

  • Brian Cowan

Yep, enough said!


#627

Is that four of a kind or a royal flush?


#628

I was wondering why FF were being abnormally quiet on this!


#629

Wow :open_mouth:


#630

The Irish Times, as predicted!

John McManus: Why we have no right to spend Apple’s €13bn
The money does not belong to us and we should give it back to its owners
irishtimes.com/opinion/john- … -1.2774603

Editorial:
EU decision on Apple: Are we defending the indefensible?
In the absence of standardisation of rates or tax bases, the state aids inquiry is a clumsy, blunt mechanism
irishtimes.com/opinion/edito … -1.2774625


#631

I watched Six One there.
The EU commissioner was a bit disingenuous saying that a company without staff or operations can’t have Revenue. She knows full well that patent company’s exist.

Richard Bruton was very very weak when giving his view ‘EC can’t act as judge jury executioner’. I’d hate to see him up against her in any intellectual battle.

We urgently need someone outside the echo chamber to independently review what Revenue, MNC and the Big 4 have been up to.

Has the simple word ‘Fraud’ been used yet ?
Ireland is like a Liberian registered oil tanker. Getting approval from our government and revenue has precisely f**k all moral weight.

Brian Hayes is furiously back peddling now saying ‘these are legacy issues’ ‘Noonan changed the rules’


#632

There is probably a ton highly experience people in EU trading law located in London who could be used after the Brexit


#633

From today’s IT:


#634

Well if no one wants the money i would be happy with 0.05% of it :laughing:


#635

There is an assumption here of some big political-administrative-corporate nexus here.

It is not how it works.

The government sets tax policy, and leaves it to Revenue to *implement *it.

No one can give Revenue a call (not the Minister, not the head of the IDA) and be told how much *any *firm pays in tax.

This is not how it works in many countries, but Ireland but taxpayer confidentiality is taken incredibly seriously at all levels in Revenue.


#636

If you really think that is how things work here, you are being naive.


#637

Eh. this guy would agree with you.


#638

+1
I’ll admit it is how it’s supposed to work, and how it’s said to work. However, I would have no reason to be confident that that is in fact how it works, and the track record around things like bank regulation etc., support that skepticism.

If I was either a Minister or an IDA official and wanted to know how much a firm pays in tax in order to help them out, the obvious place to get that information is from the firm itself.


#639

EC proposes mandatory consolidated tax rules for large companies

rte.ie/news/business/2016/10 … tax-rules/


#640

You have to give Ireland opportunities to openly display their contempt for their partners in the E.U. before you can move against them. This is one of those opportunities.
At present it is business as usual.
Would the big German and French companies really miss the trade they do with Ireland.
Is there any common infrastructure policy that depends on a country on the periphery that warrants the leakage of trillions of taxable activity in the greater E.U.


#641

There are other taxes in the pipeline.

German Parties Vying in Elections Differ on Domestic Taxes - -> bna.com/german-parties-vying-n57982088239/

E-commerce platforms face new VAT liability rules - -> euractiv.com/section/digita … ity-rules/

Netflix, YouTube to Pay Tax on Turnover in France Under New Law - -> variety.com/2017/film/global/net … 202565236/


#642

irishtimes.com/business/eco … -1.3497421


#643

Ireland is the world’s biggest corporate ‘tax haven’, say academics

irishtimes.com/business/eco … -1.3528401


#644

Dublin-based tech firm relocates to US due to Trump’s ‘favourable’ tax changes

irishtimes.com/business/tec … -1.3612765