wiw - 82 grosvenor sq

long time lurker here

any thoughts on what this is worth? felicityfox.ie/sales/475

it is an ideal location and size for me but the price seems pretty high given the amount of work that looks to be required. has anyone viewed it? does it need an architect to do a new layout and would it need planning permission or could it be renovated with an imaginative builder? any thoughts as to the costs?

Nice House

You could probably get away without using a architect if you limit yourself to a refurb.

BTW I would expect he refurb to cost €150+ given there is a good bit of work to be done in the kitchen area.

Look elsewhere here for information on Grosvenor Square, such as viewtopic.php?f=23&t=37051&p=523919&hilit=grosvenor+square#p523919.

A three storey end-of-terrace (number 11) renovated (albeit not to a very high standard) and in walk-in condition with offstreet parking via a lane at the back sold nearly a year ago for around 850K.

So factor in the the differences and the price drop in the interval between then and now.

This house is, quite literally, 100% overpriced. Start any offers with a 2. Or just wait for the price to drop.

An asking price of 595K and 150K renovation makes this a 745K house which is just absurd. There are better houses in better areas in better condition for that price.

It looks like an executor sale. 150K should see you right for renovation - rewiring, replumbing, central heating, windows, damp-proofing, kitchen, etc.

Parking is very difficult on the narrow and congested roads of the square. The park itself is private. The square has lots of houses in flats. Walk around the area in the evenings to get a feel for noise levels and safety.

As an aside, maybe it just the cynic in me but when I see posts like this from posters with small numbers of posts I get a bit suspecting of external motives such as estate agents or sellers trying to push properties. As I said, maybe it is just the cynic in me.

We all were first time posters at one stage.

I probably haven’t change my tune much since my first post 10-6-11 :slight_smile: although I was a lurker before that.

I think house like this in turn key condition would be worth €750,000 into days market… It is a period house of nearly 2000sq.ft over looking a square in Rathmines. Given that I think it would take about €150,000 and the buyer should at least get a further discount of €100,000 having to over see this work and time till it is at turnkey condition I would say €500,000 is not an off the wall value.

I think despite not having a basement doesn’t necessarily make it worth less than the other houses on the square that do. IMO houses with out the basement and steps upto the front door are more homely.

If you add up all the quoted room sizes you get 141.47 m2. I cannot see where the extra 35.78 m2 comes from. At the very most the gross internal area is 1,600 square feet.

So, no, it is not worth the asking price or anything like it.

Standard way of getting sq.ft is too add all the area inside of the external walls (this include internal partions, chimney breasts, ducting etc). you can see the main house from plans is 6.2 m wide, the length is 8.6 (4.3+0.2+ 4.1) that gives 106.5 sq.m for 2 floors of main house. The return from the layout drawing seems to be 3.6mx5.6m, which over 3 floors is 60.5sq.m. that gives 167 sq.m, you can see on the bottom return that the pantry and store built from the return but no measurement is given. If this amounts two 10sq.m the floor area quoted is accurate.

I’ve renovated a house like this - was seduced by its sad, tired but characterful appearance. It swallows up money, even without major work. I stopped keeping track when I’d spent half of the purchase price again. Windows, woodworming, heating, insulation, plumbing, electrics, doors … and so on. Nice house to live in but you’ll need a wad of spare cash and a decent income. Think hard about whether you want the bother.

Now I know you are pursing a hidden agenda.

The sum of the floor spaces of the listed room is:

9.4m x 1.7m = 15.98 m2
4.3m x 4.3m = 18.49 m2
4.1m x 4.0m = 16.40 m2
3.7m x 3.6m = 13.32 m2
3.6m x 1.1m = 3.96 m2
6.2m x 4.3m = 26.66 m2
4.1m x 4.0m = 16.40 m2
2.0m x 1.7m = 3.40 m2
3.6m x 3.4m = 12.24 m2
2.5m x 2.2m = 5.50 m2
3.6m x 3.4m = 12.24 m2

This is 144.59 m2, a difference of 32.66 m2 from the quoted 177.25 m2.

I do not see how a small pantry, store and two landings can make up the difference.

  1. Who would live there? - probably a middle class professional family, say income of 80-90k on main earner plus 10k from spouse (based on the spouse if working full time needing to spend money on childcare).

  2. how much could they borrow - maybe 450k max.

  3. would they borrow up to the maximum that they were given - probably not in this economy, a mortgage of 450k is about 2-2.5k per month.

  4. how much should be factored in for renovations? well 150k was suggested but that is based on there being no structural faults. On the other hand, the whole house doesn’t have to be brought up to speck straight away.

  5. what sort of offer should they be making? Maybe 250-300k.

Not saying that that means it is “worth” 250-300k, but that is about the maximum that a person who is not mad might spend to purchase this house. In fact, I would say it should sell for less on the basis that it is clearly not occupied so is not generating any income nor does it have anyone living in it, so they can either sell or let it deteriorate further, and with the buyer knowing this, they can force a good sale.

Lets be honest, its on the bad side of rathmines when there aren’t even enough solvent high income earners to buy all the houses in Ranelagh, Ballsbridge etc. Given what else is on offer in redbrick land, this is by no means a must have house, so its value is in a sale to someone who can take a risk in doing it up.

That is an inaccurate way of getting the sq.ft of a house, hence why you got the wrong measurement. I explained above the correct way to get the sq.ft. and the house is 177.25 if the layout drawings are correct.

thanks for the replies, i am certainly not the vendor or the ea. i’d hardly be saying i thought it was over priced if i was?!

i wouldn’t agree that this is the bad part of rathmines, i like the area a lot. i take the point though that it is not the trophy part of dublin 6 and that that should be built into the price. everyone seems to agree that 150k would be needed for the refurb, which is more than i had banked on. however i am glad to see that pretty much all comments are that it is overpriced. if i could get it for 250k as johnnyskeleton said, i would be delighted! i think it would need a price drop though before going in with such a low ball offer.

I don’t like to burst your bubble, but I don’t think you will *ever *get this house for €250k (€130 per square foot). I would generally view €250 per square foot as an ambitious buyer’s target price for a refurb job in a *good *location. However, posters in the know have been pointing out that this is not the most highly prized part of Rathmines; I don’t know how much of a discount that should imply, but let’s say we bring it down to €175-225 per square foot. That would put this house in the region of €335-430k.

Lately we seem to be witnessing a strange (and to my tastes, completely inexplicable) phenomenon on the pin: lots of pinsters want to live in Dublin 6 and they think or hope that they should be able to do so at a price that’s more like the national average or even the national average outside Dublin. Now I’m not a professional economist, but if a lot of demand is concentrated in one area than others, that area will tend to have higher than average prices.

I agree, zero chance you will get that for €250,000 in todays market.

Just noticed that no.8 Grosvenor Square has upped its asking price from 850 to 925

Granted it looks like a lovely house but what is that about? Surely if you had a few interested bidding up the price, you wouldn’t need to raise the market price, just wait until the highest bidder won out? And if you weren’t getting sufficient interest at 850, you’d hardly be getting it at 925? I don’t get what scenario would cause you to raise your headline asking price - what am I missing?

I think there is a Knight Frank factor involved in the pricing. They sold some repossessed Quinlan units in the area some time ago.

8 Windsor Road, Dublin 6 - 5 Bed Period House 253 m² / 2723 ft² - €985,000
myhome.ie/residential/brochu … -6/1882744

Bigger house, much better area, better condition, no real garden - asking €60,000 more. No offers currently.

107 Leinster Road, Dublin - 6 Bed Semi-Detached House 285 m² / 3068 ft² - €900,000
myhome.ie/residential/brochu … -6/1801451

Bigger house, off street parking, bigger back garden, asking €25,000 less. One offer of around €800,000 currently.

12 Brighton Square Dublin 6 - 4 Bed Terraced House 203 m² / 2185 ft² - €820,000

myhome.ie/residential/brochu … -6/1761252

Smaller house but similar layout, better condition, better area, bigger garden, access to private if small square, asking €105,000 less. No idea of its current status.

The pricing strategy for no. 8 is even odder than I first thought as according to the My Home listing (myhome.ie/residential/brochu … -6/1774175) it started at 925, went down to 850 in March and then back up to 925 in May.

We need mr-anderson to explain this one.

Incidentally, re jxbr’s posts, the Grosvenor Sq one looks to me to be in better condition than the other examples he posted. although I haven’t seen any of them in the flesh.

In my endless quest for the right house, I have seen the three I mentioned. I do not like Grosvenor Square. It is the wrong part of Rathmines with lots of houses in flats. The area is a warren of rented mews developments. The square is rented to a tennis and bowls club which means there are lots of cars in the evening just when you are arriving home.

8 Windsor Road, Dublin 6 - 5 Bed Period House 253 m² / 2723 ft² - €985,000

Deceptively large but the absence of a garden is a large negative factor. There is a garage at the back accessed via a lane. There is no graffiti anywhere around the lane - a good sign. The area is very nice. It is off Palmerston Road. The house is semi-detached with a side entrance. The kitchen/family room is very attractive and homely.

107 Leinster Road, Dublin - 6 Bed Semi-Detached House 285 m² / 3068 ft² - €900,000

Superficially shabby because it has been let but nothing a good cleaning would not sort out. Large well laid out house. Kitchen is very nice with secluded patio area. I am in two minds about villa style houses. I never liked Leinster Road. I find it unattractive and slightly bare.

12 Brighton Square Dublin 6 - 4 Bed Terraced House 203 m² / 2185 ft² - €820,000

Very well decorated with very nice garden. Fourth bedroom is a bit small and poorly located. Parking can be difficult in the area. Access to the small private square is an advantage. Within strolling distance of Terenure and slightly farther from Rathgar.

Fair enough - I’d been referring to the decor inside rather than the area. Grosvenor Sq seems to be somewhere that people either really warm to or really dislike. I’d veer towards the former - my sister lives there and I love the old fashioned feel of it. I love looking out her windows on summer evenings, watching genteel elderly Protestant ladies playing bowls on one side and the soldiers from Cathal Brugha Barracks playing football on the other. The tennis club also has to be the only one in Dublin 6 - or anywhere in Dublin possibly- where you can get annual family membership for a couple of hundred quid.

i’m surprised this one hasn’t shifted yet since #34 supposedly got over asking? where did all the supposed underbidders that drove the price over asking go?