WIW: Paddock Wood, Killiney Hill Road


#9

30m seems very high to me?
Would expect build cost of 2-3m (to 350 sq ft max plus tiger landscaping)
All in at around 7-8m ?
Unusual to auction this given how unique it is + further out location = you would expect to get a longer lead time ?


#10

They’re probably hoping for someone not doing the full due diligence on it.


#11

Yes, suburban hotels!
It wouldn’t be to my taste (I suppose I wouldn’t say ‘no’ mind) but I couldn’t figure out the main building until I saw this picture on the architect’s website:

https://www.cck.ie/wp-content/gallery/paddock-wood-killiney/paddock-wood-01_0.jpg

From straight on, it’s quite nicely balanced, but all the pictures on myhome and in the Irish Times are offset and it just looks weird.


#12

All that glass and steel is bad news if you like your music and want to have a decent sound system. (Glass plays havoc with sound waves - causing all kinds of reflections and deflections, resulting in a truly horrible sound.) The interior of a Martello Tower would be perfect!


#13

I knew someone who was involved in a survey to establish the problems were after it was built.
The air ventilation system does not function. Temp hit 38/40c when sun it’s the building. The glazing system on top floor has not been fitted properly and at risk of collapsing. The doors onto the Tce open out and the wind catches them. Several shattered in higher winds. They were quoted 3million to sort it.


#14

The running costs were up at 30,000 a year. Even when they moved out and had only security system and lighting on the bills were 1500.


#15

Buyers would need to check on the boundaries.They built on land belonging to adjoining house and it has not been resolved.


#16

That quote seems pretty high to me.
You could probably flatten the structure and re-build from scratch for a max of 250 sq ft which is c. 2m ?
Even though the house has some special features, the core construction is no more than high-end office.
No matter how bad the structure is, it is probably worth c +1m plus the land is worth c +1m
That is why I do think the AMV is not that unreasonable - I would be surprised if it did not get the AMV.

The question is finding the person who actually likes this design (which I definately don’t)
I have no problem with modern homes, but I think this particular layout was very poorly thought out.
Despite the huge space, it feels like a much smaller home broken up in to lots of rooms and partitions.
The worst of which is an office-type stairs that cuts the building in two ?


#17

Anyone hear what this achieved at auction earlier today?


#18

Got 4m

Packed room in Lisney
Surreal start as owner stood up to outline the defects in the house
Agent asked her to sit down but she asked the room and they told her to keep going
Somone got up and walked out (could have been staged)
Plenty of bids up to about 3m and 3 bidders took it higher
Final winner was reprenented by a lawyer


#19

Irish Times this morning on the auction of Paddock Wood (which was a weird occasion)
Paper quotes the house as being worth 12m at peak
(and thus by implication the 4m was similar to Milverton’s peak-to-trough)
Can an air ventilation system really cost 1m ?

irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/former-homeowner-lists-defects-before-4m-auction-1.1571101


#20

how or why could you spend 1m on a ventilation system??


#21

You live near politicians?


#22

Considering that the house is essentially a south facing glass-house with possibly unobstructed sunshine from every angle I would imagine that air conditioning would not be a bad idea - not that it warrants €1m, but those were different times.

Didn’t imagine it would almost double the AMV - even if there were no structural issues.


#23

At this end of the market pricing is based on what the supplier believes the customer can afford rather than the intrinsic value of the goods supplied.

The kind of client that you are dealing with in these situations is typically obsessed by the figure of 1m - they actually like to say that something cost them a million - even if it wasn’t worth it. It’s another way of showing you how rich they are.


#24

Yes, extremely rich people are by and large incredibly stupid and vain and love to waste their money to impress others.


#25

+1 the sarcasm. Having known lots of wealthy in my former job overseas (not now) I found them usually careful with money and not typically wasteful even when they could afford to be – completely the opposite of the image that some people have of rich people throwing money around carelessly. Maybe it is different with politically-connected Irish property developers who got rich quickly and easily and it didn’t last. People who actually earned big money by being good at it tend to know how to hold on to it IMHO. So this sounds like a previously modest-income, soon to be again modest-income, politically connected property developer type. Rich (for a short period) but no money sense.


#26

Sold for €4,000,000.00
propertypriceregisterireland.com … and-99058/


#27

Paddock Wood, Killiney Hill Road, Co. Dublin
8,405 sq ft. / 1.2 acres (0.5 ha)

One of the most spectacular (and surreal) auctions of 2013 (and my life).
independent.ie/irish-news/previous-owner-at-auction-mansion-is-a-shambles-29699177.html

Having bought for 4.85m at auction in May 2004, the previous owner (IT entrepreneurs John & Joan Nagle), had got planning in 2005/06 (D05A / 0110, D06A / 0790), and fully built a 8,405 sq ft. hyper-modern structure on the 1.2 acre site.

The structure looks amazing from Google Earth (large banana shape, just below Killiney Village).

Execution of the structure had material construction issues. Several parties who ran diligence over it came out with large bills (c +1m) to sort the defective heating / air-conditioning system and the glass panelling (which could not stand up to the Killiney weather). There was also a serious water issue (probably from the defective M&E which has caused separate damage).

While impressive, the structure was also not to everybody’s liking. The layout was a bit ‘office-like’ and had unusual circulation areas (multiple staircases) and layout of spaces. Despite the scale of the house, it also lacked proper large dramatic wide-open areas (the ones it had were broken up by a huge stairs and/or pillars and partitions). The architects - Conroy, Crowe, Kelly - are more known for commercial developments that once-off family houses.

It also lacked a proper integration with its gardens and site. It was actually built like a three storey D4 period house - you had to go down two flights to get to the gardens etc. To mitigate against this, the architects put a massive stairs that cut right through the three floors and out into the garden (see below). It would not suit all high end buyers but would still certainly attract some.
https://www.cck.ie/wp-content/gallery/paddock-wood-killiney/paddock-wood-04_0.jpg

Put up for AMV 2m by Lisney (1m for the acre + 1m for the defective structure). I think Lisney were tracking the pricing of the Buena Vista site further down Killiney Hill Road, which NAMA had sold a few months earlier (but took a long while to appear on register). Buena Vista and Paddock Wood had both sold around the same time in Summer 2004 for c. 5m each to buyers who planned to build very large and very modern homes. John Nagle managed to complete 8,405 sq ft. Paddock Wood, but Buena Vista’s 12,000 sq ft. concrete shell still lies uncompleted to this day.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=59203&p=752815&hilit=buena+vista

Paddock Wood was a surreal auction, however went it for 4m, or 500 sq ft. in the end.
irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/former-homeowner-lists-defects-before-4m-auction-1.1571101

Equated to 2m for the acre, and 2m for the defective structure (i.e. put 1m in, and the fixed structure is worth 3m, or 360 sq ft.).

Despite the defects, the build was high-end, and a would cost +350 sq ft. to re-do from scratch. Also, the land pricing tracked the pricing of the nearby derelict Dromeen site, which had also gone sale agreed at 1.8m an acre.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=52354&p=831028&hilit=dromeen#p831028

Some basic planning applications for the remedial works (Ref 12814) show the owner as RENUALA LIMITED (new company).

A check on this company, shows Directors as Brendan McCabe and Fionnuala McCabe of Enniskerry Wicklow.

They are also directors of RHYNIX LIMITED a company set up in Sandyford, which seems to be a property development company.

Not clear therefore is they are buying for themselves (unusual to buy a family home via an ordinary limited company), or for re-development (would be quite a high-risk project at a 4m entry price + 1m in remedial works etc.).


#28

Possible Corporate Let, Family Home or a remarkable flip…