WIW Tenerife, Glenalua Road, Killiney, Co. Dublin

What's it Worth? (WIW)
#1

Tenerife, Glenalua Road, Killiney, Co. Dublin
€1,100,000 - 3 Bed Detached House 120 m² / 1292 ft² For Sale (0.31 acres, 0.1255 ha) BER G

Irish Times - Three by the sea in Killiney (Tenerife, Glenalua Road, Killiney, Co. Dublin).
irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/new-to-market/three-by-the-sea-in-killiney-1.2168576

Sold for 1.1m per PPR in 2015.

Address Information
TENERIFE
GLENALUA ROAD
KILLINEY

Sale Information
Date of Sale:30/07/2015
Price: €1,100,000.00
Not Full Market Price:No
VAT Exclusive:No
Description of Property:Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment

Had missed this one earlier. Tenerife’s house was only 1,292 sq ft, and built as a flat-roof in the 1950s (i.e. BER G rating), so this was effectively a site sale (regardless of who was buying), for just under a third of an acre, right in the core of Killiney Village.

Tenerife does have decent sea views (not spectacular), especially on the first floor (and nice views of Killiney Hill etc.), but being right in the village is over-looked / surrounded etc (low privacy). It is in a nice cul-de-sac (called Scalpwilliam I think?).

1.1m for just under one third of an acre (or 3.5m per acre), is full pricing for this part of the world, and hints of a buyer that is going to build something full-on as well. Again, not always easy to find places in Killiney without a period house, which will allow you to build a new contemporary house, which is why I think these kind of “sites” attract an extra premium (vs. say Secrora on 51 Killiney Hill Road, which has a period house awkwardly positioned on site). There have been some very good high-end contemporary houses built close-by over the years including award winning, The Sleeping Giant by O’Donnell + Tuomey (0.45 acre site) and not to forget Ananda on St. George’s Avenue (on a 1 acre site).
ecola-award.eu/en/project/nb/killiney-house-sleeping-giant.
dublinsgreatestates.com/listings/ananda-st-georges-avenue-killiney/

There has also been some lessor contemporary structures (Hendre St. Georges Avenue anyone !).
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=60901

Will be watching with interest …

Hopefully will be as good as what we have seen with Eirene (and what is to come at Dromeen, see below).
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=879189#p879189

#2

Hi Observer

I often wonder at all the posts you (and one or 2 others like SoCoDu) keep posting about big houses for sale or being built in the more fashionable parts of Dublin with a big focus on Killiney/Dalkey. I suppose it is incredibly interesting to certain people, property porn if you will. This seems to be a bit of an obsession for you or perhaps you are deeply involved as an insider in the property business, so maybe this is just an extension of your work? I am not knocking you by the way, I am sure that many people love this stuff but do you ever consider that many readers here couldn’t give a toss about these houses or are at least equally interested in other parts of the country?

Or perhaps are the people who read the Pin only interested in property in Dublin and mainly SCD? There are plenty of beautiful houses and sites around the country with great views over coastline, lakes or mountains. I wonder if people started blogging about desirable property in Borris-in-Ossory or Belturbet or anywhere else would they have similar numbers of readers? (You can tell that its a wet bank holiday night and I’m bored :slight_smile: )

#3

8DD

#4

maybe the area and the types of property are what he is interested in,

im sure if someone wanted to do the same around the country people would read, but they would need the same knowledge of each area and property as observer has about the more expensive suburbs of Dublin.

also, the forum is quite dublin centric so these posts are of greater interest.

personally i find them fascinating

#5

I really enjoy his posts. It is a property discussion board after all so everyone who posts has an interest in it. Its a bit much to make him/her out to be some sort of obsessive loon when you are obviously reading all the posts so the same accusation could be levelled at you :slight_smile:

#6

Ignore the ones your not interested in
Post on the ones you are
Its a form
No observer or onion eater was harmed in the typing of internet fluff

#7

I’m not making anyone out to be an “obsessive loon” as you so gently put it. Far from it.

In fact the amount of effort required to put together the detail/analysis in these posts suggests that Observer may have more than a hobbyist interest in this end of the market and the posts, while often overtly critiquing asking prices, may even be a subtle way of disseminating marketing. My EA radar has been registering a blip on these posts for some time, that is all. But maybe it’s on the blink.

#8

The posts where he mostly says “this costs too much” are subtle marketing? If that’s the case, his employer should probably ask for their money back. :slight_smile:

#9

We’re all in an awkward place once you start casting aspersions on how people choose to spend their internet time.

(checks own post count, walks away slowly)

:smiley:

#10

Some very amusing stuff above (and thanks) :smiley:

For the record:

  • not an EA
  • not a (complete) loon (although i acknowledge that is a point of view).

Started blogging on high-end, and for some reason, haven’t stopped (like a few others on the PIN)?

As I dub, I have little to add outside of Dublin high-end (although that has not always stopped me trying !)

#11

I for one always enjoy the inputs of observer and SoCoDu but maybe I just enjoy the “porn” aspect of it… (I need to get out more!!)

With regard Tenerife, any idea what happened to its close neighbour that was for sale at the same time?

viewtopic.php?t=796

Nothing on the register…

#12

Yeah, not the sort of thing I’d be looking for, and mostly not even the sort of thing I’d be looking for done if I had the money, but the detailed posts are interesting.

#13

Definitely keep up the good work. I may not find myself living in one of these houses in the future but I think it’s good to keep the spread of information across the pin. If everybody here was just talking about 4 bed new builds we would lose out on all the information on older houses.

#14

If I had an interest in this stuff I could well post on a forum denigrating my competitors prospects/results while gently lauding my own firms work. I.e. €X million per acre for a Killiney house & site A is too high, while €Y million for another house & site B was the norm for the area etc. The commissions on high value transactions make it worth putting some effort into, people are naive and would be surprised at the subtle marketing tactics involved in many businesses.

#15

That’s fair enough but I doubt you are a complete amateur in the area of property investment/development/financing.

On a totally unrelated subject does anyone know what Derek Quinlan is up to these days? :slight_smile:

#16

in his defence i have little difficulty believing he is an amateur but its always good for people to show an interest as long as they do so in a responsible manner and post about facts

in other news

half of glenalua road has sold in since 2012

26/10/2012 €1,050,000.00 Brugh na Carraige, Glenalua Road, Killiney
circe 0.7 acre good quality 2,992sqft architect designed dwelling right beside tenerife

11/10/2013 €1,085,000.00 Gorsefield, Glenalua Road, Killiney
circa 0.7 acre basic quality redecorated house
would be worth knocking + rebuilding in future

11/04/2014 €900,000.00 KNOCKBRACK, GLENALUA RD, KILLINEY
circa 1 acre ok house
great value site if it is ever rebuilt

23/04/2015 €970,000.00 HEATHCREST, GLENALUA RD, KILLINEY
circa 0.7 acre basic house + outdoor pool
owners have fully refurbed i think

so to break it down
Brugh na Carraige - €1.5m / acre (€350psf)
Gorsefield - €1.55m / acre
KNOCKBRACK - €0.9m / acre
HEATHCREST - €1.39m / acre

and now Tenerife - €3.5m / acre

yet observer tells us all that prices havent moved since 2013 and theres no money out there
or i guess it could just be that a dumb expat bought tenerife for so much money

glenalua road is fab but its a pity more of these houses arent being redeveloped…
most who bought them cheap in 2012to2015 bought them and redecorated them
fab setting and great views out of all of them of golf course + mountains + bray head etc even if theyre not all direct sea views
anyone who bought them will make €€€ in the future when they sell due to redevelopment potential especially KNOCKBRACK

funny how observer didnt mention Brugh na Carraige at all
Brugh na Carraige - €1.5m / acre OR €350psf
Tenerife - €3.5m / acre OR €851psf

he only likes to do analysis and make comparisons when it suits him
the two houses border one another and brugh na c is a proper 3000sf architecturlly intersting house on more than double the land and for less money
tenerife is a knock job on a small and limited site for more money
even looking at just site values there is a 133% rise in value between them… comparing like for like site with same views same overlooking issues from houses behind etc
not forgetting that brugh na c included a big valuable structure
288% rise in value if compard with the market low value of KNOCKBRACK

#17

Nope, I have said that the Dublin high-end is back to about mid 2013 (in aggregate), which is an “observable” fact.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=65796

The houses that you list above are not high-end (but I’ll come back to them).

However for high-end in Killiney, the same pattern still reveals itself (but with less data-points):

Killiney House was for sale asking 4.5m in 2012-2013 (I think Savills or Lisney had it).
Went Sale Agreed at least once at just over 4m in 2013, but is now is asking 3.95m.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?t=65203&p=849300

Abbeylands West, Marino Avenue was also for sale from mid 2013 asking 2.85m.
It finally sold just recently for 2.4m.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=61288

Percy Lodge, which just sold for 2.4m, was offered close to that at the end 2013.
They turned it down and waited for a few years to put it on for 2.85m.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=826281

Of course, this is not unilateral, and the sale of Eirene for 1.35m, at the bottom, was, imho, the “deal” in high-end Killiney, and would sell for more today (even forgetting the exceptional development the buyer has undertaken on the site);
however neighboring Miramar, also bought at bottom for 3m, might not make much (if anything) over 3m today.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10101

What has been a real surprise in Killiney post 2012, are sites on which new (i.e non-period) houses can be built. Prices in the little Ash Hurst (Ashurst) estate, off Military Road, are implying +2m per acre. thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=64395. The other surprise have been lovely periods with strong sea-views (i.e. Galleen + Dorset Lodge).

You will see from my various posts on Killiney, that from 2014, land in the best parts of Killiney has been selling at c 2-3m per acre (3m for exceptional sites and/or houses like Dorset and Galleen).

The sites along the Glenalua Road struggled to break out of the 1-1.5m per acre zone post GFC, however Tenerife is clearly a step up in this regard (and the reason I posted this thread). It would certainly, for example, make sites like Dromeen worth at least 2x what was paid for them in 2013 (Dromeen is a far (far) stronger site than Tenerife imho), and same probably applies to sites like Buena Vista (although I don’t think the Mr Evans will be flipping that one).

What was interesting about the Tenerife site is that while it was not in a particularly classy part of Killiney, it was perfect for a new build and did have very good sea-views. Again, if you are of the mind to read my posts on Killiney (and Dalkey), sea-view is a big driver of post GFC stronger pricing (not just in Killiney). It would imply Brugh na Carraige could be worth 2x today (3m per acre x 0.70 acres), however contrast this with nearby period mansion Laragh (1 acre +6,000 sq ft lovely period) which has no sea-view. It is quite a thing that Brugh na Carraige could be almost worth the same as Laragh, but that what is what I think is happening.

I don’t think however that we would see such a pick up all along the Glenalua Road (like we have with Ash Hurst) given the lack of any sea-views (i.e. like Laragh). Although, if these sites can be broken up for small estates, then they are worth 2m per acre.

If anything, my thread is highlighting a step-up in pricing for Killiney sites (esp. with sea-views + and for new builds).

I encourage you to read before you write …

#18

I see that the new owners of Tenerife have gotten planning for a new 3,842sq ft. Paul Brazil house D15A/0537.

Looks quite nice - fills out site and has full balconies and terraces and centre skylight (love that feature).

Paul Brazil is not into making dramatic architectural statements (i.e. The Sleeping Giant types), but does do very high quality builds and with attractive features. You still see houses built from the 1990s described by the agent as a “Paul Brazil” house.

A 3,842 sq ft Paul Brazil house will cost c. 1.2m all-in, so with landscaping / fees etc. the owners would be in for c 2.4m all-in. Based on Mount Prospect’s sale (or Abbeylands sale), the completed house would be worth that.

PS they are Tanya and Philip Airey, dalkey locals, whose family own the Sunway Travel Group

The Punt: Airey’s holidays home
independent.ie/business/the-punt/the-punt-aireys-holidays-home-34238102.html

PS incredible that the Airley’s got objections from almost all their neighbors - including new owners of Brugh na Carraige - requiring an appeal process ?? here is a couple that is going to spend big money (+ time) building a new high-end house, with one of Dublin’s main higher-end architects (known for understated quality houses), which will materially increase the value of all houses / sites in this row (Brugh na Carraige especially), and they are trying to stop them ? quite amazing. hopefully the other owners will sell up to other equivalent new buyers, and this area can move on from such small mindedness.