Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on dole


#69

I wouln’t say it’s bullshit, just not very comprehensive. A lot more people would get the “go on the dole” sign if it was more comprehensive. Suppose it kind of favours working in that sense. Or maybe the guy who made the site had to go and sign on before it was finished. :slight_smile:


#70

The rent supplement figures are misleading as they vary depending on geographic location.


#71

Every payment should be linked to a rsi number. Everything. At the end of the year you would get a statement of income similar to a p60
Once tthe figures have been quantified you could set maximum welfare figure eg 40000 a year


#72

I agree if you want to get welfare dont become self-employed but if everyone stops being self employed where will the jobs come from?

Self employed should be allowed to pay employers PRSI for themselves therefore it becomes self funding to give self employed welfare when their businesses fail or they have no work.


#73

You could replace it with Mortgage Interest Repayment Suppliment. Doesn’t matter if you have a mortgage or not, just get one before going on the dole for maximum juice from the governmental carton.


#74

This. It’s meant as a quick and dirty simplified calculator. It’s comparing two very simple situations and doesn’t take into account all the tax relief or welfare benefits you could get. It’s about 4 hours of a slow sunday’s worth of work so it’s not meant to be all encompassing.

The table with all the maximum is available if you click the link titled ‘Show/hide a list of the limits.’ I just wasn’t arsed coding them in.


#75

There appears to be an incentive to pay more rent rather than less:

41K per year, 2 kids, spouse not working
at 1500 pm rent,

at 1400 pm rent,


#76

Well. Turns out that since I last discussed this situation with them 5 day weeks are an available option again, but they decided to remain on the 3 day week. Colour me surprised.


#77

I had to put one of my employees on a 3 day week. Recently anothe employee emigrated so I was able to offer him a full week again.

He declined as he was taking home the same amount when his welfare payment is taken into account.


#78

Hearing that a lot, also a few friends of mine dont even mind losing the few quid and having the 2 days off instead…

There kept busy but dont want to trade havign the time off with young kids vs getting 50 to maybe 100 extra.

I can see their point.!


#79

You’ve put in over the max allowed rent. I was relying on people reading the table linked to avoid hard coding the limits but I now ask where you’re living and if your sharing to enforce the limits.


#80

Can an employer fire someone for not being willing (and able) to work a 5 day week? Or would that be a case for wrongful dismissal?


#81

Much more simple, I would have thought, to just inform Welfare that Mr. X has turned down employment.


#82

Better still make it mandatory to report that the role was refused by an applicant if possible.


#83

you shouln’t blame workers for a system that allows this to happen, this is the same system that allows other people not to work full stop and live a fairly decent life, if we have seen anything from the last few years the people who tried to better themselves during the celtic tiger years particlary the selfemployed have been very badly treated, the poverty industry in this country has created a completely broken welfare system which rewards dossers while punishing people who want to help themselves.


#84

I was chatting to my friend (were both 26) who’s in the self employee category taking 50k out a year for the last couple of years for his business and was wondering is it really worthwhile bothering anymore. 50k after taxes is about 15k less, and since he has a car .5k for road tax, vhi (abour 1k) which he was saying is tax (and i’d agree), and if he spends 20k on goods and services (in the country including petrol, excluding rent) thats about 6k on VAT and petrol taxes (very rough guess at 30%)

so that tots to about 22.5k, so he reckons his actual tax rate is about 45% tax rate (excluding what the company pays on ER prsi and CT). And what does he get for this? roads, water to the house he is living in, and thats about it really, since he didnt go to college, and was educated outside ireland but is Irish national.

So he is wondering why bother since he is taking on the risk of no earnings or a potential loss, but since he can’t just close shop and go on the dole, he doesnt have many options. Leave the country maybe

I may get a job at 50k in the future, and when i mentioned this to my dad, he said that huge, but when you take 45% of it away, and then try to live and save (which I’ve been doing since college) there isn’t much hope of ever living in a decent place, money to provide for kids and family etc

I am the first to realise that both of us sound like celtic tiger cubs who have no interest in working but we both work hard, but we are now wondering for what. And we both realised how lucky we are having no mortgages, so we can only imagine how bad it is for others. But we also know people the same age as us who doss on the dole and drink dutch gold and get dominos with their money. This is the lifestyle of one of my good friends who is on the back to work scheme. For these guys, the recession has brought down the dole by a few quid, but drink and other prices have come down, so in their words the party never stops.

The system is broken and provides no incentives to make a go of it, because life at the bottom is too cussy it seems. And there is no political will to change it.


#85

The landlords dole is a prime example, if the state wasn’t propping up rents at the expense of working families who are renting then low paid families could have up to €100pw more in their pockets, but because the state has a minimum they are prepared to pay, then everybody has to pay that rate, this is one sick and twisted country for people who try to make the best of what they have. The poverty industry has a lot to answer for…


#86

Just remember that much of that money you work had to save will be taken in extra taxes to pay for no extra services. Family aside I have no reason not to leave.


#87

Wow! sounds like a great party on the dole, knacker’s cider and s**t pizza. Nothing like a balanced diet I always say. God the fear an loathing! Imagine resenting someone who is reduced to drinking Duch Gold! I suppose the idea is that if the unemployed are attacked often enough, then the attacks will work and the dole will be cut further and the unemployed will be forced to work low paid jobs with no rights.

A right wing wet dream you might say but still…it’s only a matter of time. The failure here is not of the individual but of capitalism but we can’t say that or we can’t understand that or it can’t be true.

NO! It can’t be the fault of capitalism , these dossers are completely at fault for being on the dole. These 400,000 or so dossers have all been offered great jobs but they all refused. It’s true! I read it in the paper! There are thousands of jobs out there goin a beggin. Anyone can get a job irrespective of age, skills, history, employers never discriminate against Irish people or non nationals or older people or people who might assert their rights or unskilled people or Women or Men .

Life on the dole is great, you can buy a car, easily get credit, you are never late paying bills, your health is perfect, you are never stressed by the situation you are in, you never borrow from loan sharks to pay the bills, you buy whatever takes your fancy in upmarket stores, you live in gated community in a good part of town. It’s just so good! And to top it all there’s Duch Gold.


#88

Im all for right of employees, but a situation where prospective employees are turning down 28k jobs because the dole is better for them mean that since they are unlikely to get a better offer they will stay on the dole. So where does the free ride stop?

Right wing dream maybe, but isn’t that what the IMF/chicago based economists are all about? Changing countries into right wing orientated, free market, anti welfare etc etc, but the high welfare costs our country are facing is at least partily to blame for the arrival of the IMF.