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 Post subject: Re: What is the cheapest way to heat water?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:09 pm 
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Why is that illegal here boomshackala? Is it risky in some way? And what effect does the break tank have in practice?

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 Post subject: Re: What is the cheapest way to heat water?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:14 pm 
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Mantissa wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
I'd guess €6-7k incl VAT depending on size of solar collector. It might also be necessary to modify a room/hotpress to take the cylinder.


Less than I thought.

2k will get you a DIY 40 tube set and fittings excluding tank.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the cheapest way to heat water?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:18 pm 
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Mantissa wrote:
Why is that illegal here boomshackala? Is it risky in some way? And what effect does the break tank have in practice?

The idea is that if a check (non return) valve fails, then in theory water from the house could flow back into the mains. If the mains is at a decent pressure this obviously cannot happen, but given the state of our public mains water system, pressure cannot be guaranteed. The biggest risk to losing pressure is freezing of old mains piping at winter causing them to burst. On the continent they do things a little better. However the chances of a mains pressure and check valve failure are low on a cold water system.

A break tank is a 1m x 1m x 1m plastic tank the mains water feeds into, covered, sealed and sterile. So you put a pump at the outlet to pressurize your hot and cold water via a Tee fitting after it.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the cheapest way to heat water?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:33 pm 
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boomshackala wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
Why is that illegal here boomshackala? Is it risky in some way? And what effect does the break tank have in practice?

The idea is that if a check (non return) valve fails, then in theory water from the house could flow back into the mains. If the mains is at a decent pressure this obviously cannot happen, but given the state of our public mains water system, pressure cannot be guaranteed. The biggest risk to losing pressure is freezing of old mains piping at winter causing them to burst. On the continent they do things a little better. However the chances of a mains pressure and check valve failure are low on a cold water system.

A break tank is a 1m x 1m x 1m plastic tank the mains water feeds into, covered, sealed and sterile. So you put a pump at the outlet to pressurize your hot and cold water via a Tee fitting after it.


Is that the noisy type of pump that apartments have?

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 Post subject: Re: What is the cheapest way to heat water?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:35 pm 
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Good posts boomshackala, but just to clarify that the break tank doesn't need to be excessively large. 90 Litres per occupant is recommended.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the cheapest way to heat water?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:47 pm 
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Failr enough Coles - and probably better that way too - reduce stagnation

@Mantissa - The noisy shower pumps are the ones you use with a vented (un pressurized) system. You'd be well advised to avoid.
What I'm proposing is a simple pump which is quiet and much cheaper too.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the cheapest way to heat water?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:55 pm 
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boomshackala wrote:
Failr enough Coles - and probably better that way too - reduce stagnation

@Mantissa - The noisy shower pumps are the ones you use with a vented (un pressurized) system. You'd be well advised to avoid.
What I'm proposing is a simple pump which is quiet and much cheaper too.


Thanks boom! Sorry for the basic questions.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the cheapest way to heat water?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:59 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
@Terra, That's an ideal system for an urban dwelling. With all my projects I use pressurised systems.

Thanks :D

We have put as much thought as possible into everything. Nice to have the vote of confidence.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the cheapest way to heat water?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:33 pm 
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boomshackala wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
Why is that illegal here boomshackala? Is it risky in some way? And what effect does the break tank have in practice?

The idea is that if a check (non return) valve fails, then in theory water from the house could flow back into the mains. If the mains is at a decent pressure this obviously cannot happen, but given the state of our public mains water system, pressure cannot be guaranteed. The biggest risk to losing pressure is freezing of old mains piping at winter causing them to burst. On the continent they do things a little better. However the chances of a mains pressure and check valve failure are low on a cold water system.

A break tank is a 1m x 1m x 1m plastic tank the mains water feeds into, covered, sealed and sterile. So you put a pump at the outlet to pressurize your hot and cold water via a Tee fitting after it.

Thanks for the clarification boomshackala, was repeating what i was told when i've asked before why there were none in ireland. Good to know you can at least use the break-tank / pump option.

-nb


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 Post subject: Re: What is the cheapest way to heat water?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 12:18 am 
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A great thread and some really interesting replies.

Is there any way to reduce the amount of water that has to pass before the hot water actually arrives at the tap?

In hotels I think that they have a continuous circulation of hot water so that you don't waste too much water and I remember seeing a spec for a water system in a Scandinavian apt block which said that hot water had to arrive within ~10 seconds (IIRC) once the hot water tap was switched on.


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