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 Post subject: Re: The renovations thread
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 1:00 pm 
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5474
@York: I really don't understand why this is such a big deal in Ireland.

My mother lives in a Victorian redbrick terraced house on a hillside in the UK, with a north-west facing rear which is very exposed to driving rain.

I delivered a long monologue similar to yours, going into detail about moving condensation points and the evils of cement render, and she just said "mine is just studded, never had a problem". I think she meant that there was plain plasterboard with a gap to the brick, supported by wooden battens. I assume it isn't foam-backed, not sure whether there's any glass wool but I don't remember seeing any when doing basic DIY jobs. Her heating bill is lower than mine.

Are you saying that in Ireland the normal practice is to bond/nail the plasterboard directly to the wall without any studs?

"It's easy to confuse what is with what ought to be, especially when what is has worked out in your favour"
Tyrion Lannister

 Post subject: Further to warmboarding
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 1:43 pm 
Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Aug 2, 2011
Posts: 1248
york wrote:
plasterboard is made of plaster and paper - both breathing materials. A layer of plastic foam stuck to the rear of the plasterboard to make it warmboard isn't breathable. Generally there's an aluminium foil layer over the foam - all impermeable to moisture.

As it happens, I was talking to a guy who does breathable wall insulation for single-leaf structures and he filled in some detail which corrects what I say above.

Although plasterboard is water absorbent (plasterboard & paper, though not the alu foiled backed stuff), that's not the same as breathable. Breathable insulation effectively encourages and enables moisture transfer from the inner surface of the wall, through the insulation and into the room and away. The insulation is fully bonded to the wall - like a tile, rather than a cavity being created between the insulation and wall (which occurs with warmboard / drylining). The idea of full contact between insulation and wall (with suitable adhesive obviously) is to draw moisture from the wall into the insulation rather than leave a canyon which the moisture cannot bridge.

Simple dry lining (plasterboard on wooden battens fixed to the wall but no insulation - a cheap way to resolve crumbling original plaster) creates a cavity and thus, moisture build up on the inner surface of the wall.

The insulation is then skimmed with a breathable plaster - not gypsum (normal skim coat / plasterboard filling, which itself isn't breathable)

It ain't cheap. A 30mm layer of insulation fitted costs around €95 + vat per m2. 50mm costs €115+vat m2. 30mm might be the recommended max in certain circumstances too - so it's not like you can turn your period into an A3 rated property just by throwing money at it. These prices presume the underlying plaster flat and sound such as to attach the insulation.

If unsound plaster, they can strip it and replaster with a cork-impregnated material which acts as an insulation. About 15% more expensive than the above but with slightly better insulation qualities.


Normal warmboarding at say 70mm thick (and with better insulation qualities per mm thickness) could be installed for perhaps €60m2

And so, houses all around (period and other single leaf structures) being fitted with moisture retaining / mould inducing / building fabric damaging warmboard.

 Post subject: Re: The renovations thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:56 pm 

Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Posts: 8788
Location: London, innit
Anyone got a hob on an Island/Peninsula? or thoughts thereon?

I think it's the way to go, especially with an induction hob, a sink is spashy and encourages mess in its environs but a hob is used less and can be wiped down easily

I'm stuck deciding between

* Island Extractor Fan - traditional extractor except fixed to ceiling rather than wall
+ pro: simple to install, vent
- con: a bit ugly, even raised to usual max would be in my line of sight across kitchen/dining area

* Downdraft/backdraft extractor (pop ups behind the hob) sucks air behind, down and out (under floor in case of an island)
+pros: looks great, keeps open plan concept
- cons: expensive, difficult to install correctly, possibly not as effective (surprisingly few reviews online)

* Pendant fan - recirculating fan

+ pro: simple to install, no venting required, can look cool
- con: recirculating so not as effective, would be in my line of sight


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