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 Post subject: AirBnB planning permission Dublin?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:29 pm 
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Is this the end of short lets in Dublin city?

http://www.independent.ie/business/pers ... 69131.html

I use AirBnB when I travel, I find it's a way to obtain a decent place to stay at a reasonable price. Tourism in Dublin is on the up and dramatically so. Hotels are raising their prices at the same rate. Surely, providing quality affordable short term lets is a way to maintain current tourism and secure it's future?

I just don't buy the 'airbnb is in some way responsible for the housing crisis' theory. The government is responsible for that, nothing has been built in years and it's just too easy to lay blame on short lets, I feel. Most short let apartments are not suitable for families anyway.

I also find it ironic that Temple Bar residents, of all places, with it's loud late night bars are the ones that have objected to tourists staying in the area! Without them, the area dies, as I know very little Dubliners who actively frequent the restaurants and bars in the area.

It will be a real blow to our economy if we lose reasonably priced city centre lodgings available to tourists. Dublin is expensive as it is. I have travelled to Amsterdam, New york, and London and stayed centrally in Airbnb apartments. I do not think I would have been able to afford such trips if I was forced to stay in hotels. In Dublin, city centre hotels are over subscribed, that's a fact! Tourists mainly want to stay locally, it makes sense that they have affordable options.

The EU have recently supported a 'sharing economy' http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-se ... SKCN0YO12I

What's more, only last March South Dublin County council said that whether a residential property was occupied on a rental basis or by the owner was not a matter for it. “Essentially the use is for residential purposes and only if, for example, residential use is changed to commercial use, as in a shop or other commercial activity, is planning permission required.” Dublin City Council said there was nothing under the Planning Act that precluded the use of a residence for short-term purposes. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-a ... -1.2584950

Personally, I think that as long as landlords are compliant, paying their taxes and ensuring they abide by guidelines set out by short let forums, like Airbnb, they should be allowed to do as they wish with their property.


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 Post subject: Re: AirBnB planning permission Dublin?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:49 pm 
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Indo wrote:
Members of Temple Bar Residents Association...claim that the huge number of flats on Airbnb and other holiday sites is affecting the atmosphere of the neighbourhood


:D

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 Post subject: Re: AirBnB planning permission Dublin?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:54 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Indo wrote:
Members of Temple Bar Residents Association...claim that the huge number of flats on Airbnb and other holiday sites is affecting the atmosphere of the neighbourhood


:D

Right???? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: AirBnB planning permission Dublin?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:00 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Indo wrote:
Members of Temple Bar Residents Association...claim that the huge number of flats on Airbnb and other holiday sites is affecting the atmosphere of the neighbourhood


:D

They're brining their culture with them. Some of them refuse to drink before 12.

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 Post subject: Re: AirBnB planning permission Dublin?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:01 pm 
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I've lived beside two apartments used for short lets (though not AirBNB in one case; some sort of contract with a nearby hotel), in two primarily residential buildings. I think requiring planning makes perfect sense; their customers tend to behave pretty badly. Not all of their customers, of course, but enough. If someone wanted to use the apartment or house next door to you for any other trade which produced a lot of noise and strangers wandering about, they'd need planning; not sure what's meant to be so special about short lets.

Re the tourism point, last time I checked, hotels, b&bs and youth hostels exist (as do dedicated self-catering apartment buildings), and I'm pretty sure I remember seeing tourists on the streets of Dublin before Airbnb was a thing.

Realistically, though, even if a requirement for planning doesn't come in, apartment building head leases will likely start specifically banning this practice, so it'll decline over time.


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 Post subject: Re: AirBnB planning permission Dublin?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:03 pm 
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maryoblige wrote:
Eschatologist wrote:
Indo wrote:
Members of Temple Bar Residents Association...claim that the huge number of flats on Airbnb and other holiday sites is affecting the atmosphere of the neighbourhood


:D

Right???? :lol:


Temple bar was not intended to be turned into the City's open air vomitorium. Many people actually bought into the push for residential revitalisation by living there in what was a semi derelict section of the city, destined to become a bus depot hub for CIE. Somewhere along the way the money came in and began to change the residential bias of the development vision with a highly virulent boom to whip it up into a freenzy. I'm relatively old enough to have seen the before and after of Temple Bar. There is much I miss that was social and local, vibrant and but brash.

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 Post subject: Re: AirBnB planning permission Dublin?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:12 pm 
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Worstpigeon wrote:
I've lived beside two apartments used for short lets (though not AirBNB in one case; some sort of contract with a nearby hotel), in two primarily residential buildings. I think requiring planning makes perfect sense; their customers tend to behave pretty badly. Not all of their customers, of course, but enough. If someone wanted to use the apartment or house next door to you for any other trade which produced a lot of noise and strangers wandering about, they'd need planning; not sure what's meant to be so special about short lets.

Re the tourism point, last time I checked, hotels, b&bs and youth hostels exist (as do dedicated self-catering apartment buildings), and I'm pretty sure I remember seeing tourists on the streets of Dublin before Airbnb was a thing.

Realistically, though, even if a requirement for planning doesn't come in, apartment building head leases will likely start specifically banning this practice, so it'll decline over time.


I agree, hotels that specifically buy or lease apartments for short lets are less likely to 'vet' their guests but I know that when, I for instance travel, which I do a lot of through work and for pleasure, the vetting process is substantial. Basically, it was very hard for me to obtain an apartment rental without 'verification' - which ultimately meant I had to provide my passport, credit card details and often my previous reviews by former hosts before I could secure a rental. In the early days, this meant that I needed to book through a friend and then add my contact to her booking, so as to get a positive review. I do not think that most guests of short lets pose a threat or hinderance to local residence. Of course, there are exceptions - as there is with everything.

I think legislation is important but i do not agree with blanket rules that penalise every law abiding/ local resident-respectful landlords.

With regard to tourism, of course Ireland has had it in buckets for years but only recently have we experienced such large numbers frequenting our cities, most of whom do not wish to stay 40 minutes bus/ taxi ride from the city centre of Dublin/ Cork etc, particularly if they are on a 3 day 'city' visit. Times are a changing. People expect much more now. I recently stayed in Soho New York, 3 of us spent a total of €800 on a one bed apt for 3 nights. We'd pay double that staying in a hotel nearby (i checked). We spent plenty of $$$s in the city, adding to the local economy. If we had to pay hotel prices, I'm not sure we would have been so keen to go so soon.

Change is hard but I really appreciate the EU initiative - the sharing economy. We cannot be an exclusive economy if we are to survive. We need to be able to welcome the masses and provide hospitality accordingly and at different price levels.

I personally think that legislation needs to tackle sub letting - this is one of AirBnBs biggest issues, I think and this is different to an owner letting their apartment, on a short/ long term let. Subletting poses minimum risk to the sub-letter. I also think that anyone letting their apartment has a big responsibility to their neighbours. Be casual with who you let to, suffer the consequences. Strike 3 and you're out!


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 Post subject: Re: AirBnB planning permission Dublin?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:30 pm 
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maryoblige wrote:
i also think that anyone letting their apartment has a big responsibility to their neighbours. Be casual with who you let to, suffer the consequences. Strike 3 and you're out!


Which consequences, though? In general, in this country, there seem to be minimal consequences for landlords whose tenants cause problems. And this is only compounded in the short letting scenario, where serious vetting is impractical (reviews on a website aren't really worth much, and I hear that Airbnb suffers from the EBay Problem, where tenants and landlords tend to leave each other good reviews regardless of the facts, out of fear of a negative reprisal review) and where there are no real consequences to the visitor if they misbehave.


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 Post subject: Re: AirBnB planning permission Dublin?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:38 pm 
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I do airbnb on one property in-between corporate lets.
Too much work for little additional money.

The vetting process enables you to weed out hens & stags.
So far, all my 'guests' have been very good.

I signed a corporate let for the next 2 months and was extremely relived at doing so.
It's not all its cracked up to be.


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 Post subject: Re: AirBnB planning permission Dublin?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:21 pm 
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German court upholds Berlin ban on Airbnb.

http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0608/794041-b ... te-rental/

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