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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:05 am 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Nov 10, 2006
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Coveney said that only those borrowing 80% plus of the price of the house would be eligible for the grant.

Saving and not getting yourself into unsustainable debt is really for idiots in this kip of a country.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:22 pm 
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Property Magnate

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http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/gove ... 44774.html

80% LTV, now apparently 70% LTV... shur' whatever you are having yourself...

This country is going straight to hell.

Absolutely nobody was lobbying for 70% LTVers to qualify... so i wonder who got the lobbying in?
:sick:


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:31 pm 
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Property Magnate

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FTBer wrote:
http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/government-to-announce-changes-to-the-firsttime-buyers-scheme-35144774.html

80% LTV, now apparently 70% LTV... shur' whatever you are having yourself...

This country is going straight to hell.

Absolutely nobody was lobbying for 70% LTVers to qualify... so i wonder who got the lobbying in?
:sick:


The Central Bank apparently


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:40 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 12, 2014
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Caesar wrote:
FTBer wrote:
http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/government-to-announce-changes-to-the-firsttime-buyers-scheme-35144774.html

80% LTV, now apparently 70% LTV... shur' whatever you are having yourself...

This country is going straight to hell.

Absolutely nobody was lobbying for 70% LTVers to qualify... so i wonder who got the lobbying in?
:sick:


The Central Bank apparently

Using it as a chance to bump more people's LTV down in order to provide a greater cushion for a future crash?

Also, unless I'm not understanding it correctly: why wouldn't anyone who had means to use a better LTV.... just slide it to 80%. Then after qualifying for the rebate - just lop the extra 10/15 in savings straight off the mortgage?


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:41 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 1586
Details are still sketcy but, if it is like above (must borrow 80% and govt make up another 10%), that rewards savers for one. Secondly, it could reduce house prices as people stop reaching beyond their means, save for what they can actually afford while getting the bonus of a reduced mortgage and builders stop pulling the "ladder up" after them.

So difficult to tell without full details though.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:47 pm 
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Sounds like cap reduce from 600k, possibly to 400k also. Delighted to see the Central Bank standing up to this.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... -1.2835860

Quote:
The Government is to table significant amendments to one of its signature budget proposals, the income tax rebate for first-time buyers, after concerns were raised by the Central Bank and Fianna Fáil.

The Irish Times has learned that Minister for Finance Michael Noonan has been given Cabinet approval to reduce the thresholds for the scheme, which is designed to help first-time buyers accumulate a mortgage deposit, from its budget day limit of homes to the value of €600,000.

......

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:12 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

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I may have misread some of articles.

Rte news take:
, there were concerns raised by the Central Bank that buyers with larger deposits would feel under pressure to increase their mortgages to 80% to avail of the grant.

That is expected to prompt the Government to change the loan to value restriction to 70% instead of the earlier 80%.

The development follows contact from Central Bank Governor Philip Lane.

He had been in discussions with the Department of Finance on the issue and followed up with a formal letter this week.

The bank's research found that the average loan to value for first time buyers was 78.7%.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:27 pm 
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ixus wrote:
The bank's research found that the average loan to value for first time buyers was 78.7%.

Over what period I wonder? If it pre-dates the CB rules then that would somewhat dispel the myth that FTBs need the 90%+ mortgages that VIs are pushing for. Actually, in fairness I haven't heard much whining lately about the CB rules...

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:05 am 
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Too Big to Fail
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Another development with 16k lobbed on after the budget

http://www.daft.ie/meath/houses-for-sal ... h-1170359/

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:33 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
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Location: SthDub
So they reduce it to 70% say for a house value of max 400k.
A couple manage to save 120k and need to borrow 70%, 380k. The Taxpayer then gives them 20k when the deal is done.

Should the taxpayer be giving 20k to people who are capable of saving 120k in the first place.

'Help to build scheme' is what this should be called


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:40 am 
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FreeFallin wrote:
Should the taxpayer be giving 20k to people who are capable of saving 120k in the first place.

If any FTB is getting 5% (20k), all FTBs should get it - we shouldn't discriminate against people for being prudent, financially literate and for having made the choice to not mortgage themselves to the hilt! The question is whether we should be giving any FTBs 20k and the answer (for me anyway) is absolutely not. None of them should be helped, as at least then the underlying issues with the property market might be eventually dealt with. What this 5% rebate does is ensure that would-be FTBs do not have to save as long to clamber onto the ladder (especially for lower value properties, where the required deposit under the CB rules is lower than 20%). The only good that can come from this is increased supply, but that isn't a given either. The whole thing is just a mess really.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:50 am 
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Nationalised
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Listening to RTE 2FM by accident and the entire show seems to be about giving away €20k as a deposit towards 'buying a home'. Sponsored by Ulster Bank as part of their mortgage drive. Text 'home' to 51552. Dont text 'debt trap' for the obvious reasons.

Is this public service broadcasting?

Quote:
"So if you’re a renter, or a wanna be mover this is the competition for you!

We’re looking for you renters, who’d love to have your own place. And we’re looking for all of you living at home with your parents trying to save enough money to get that deposit together.

Make your move and join Nicky and Jenny each day for your chance to play for a place in our final on Friday 21st and not only that but thanks to Ulster Bank if you’re one of our daily winners you’ll get a thousand euro to put towards your savings for that new home too!

Daily competition – Two contestants compete on-air – Objective is to answer questions based around the word HOME."


What's the message? A rented property can never be 'home'.


Last edited by Coles2 on Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:56 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5246
SoCoDu wrote:
If any FTB is getting 5% (20k), all FTBs should get it - we shouldn't discriminate against people for being prudent, financially literate and for having made the choice to not mortgage themselves to the hilt!

Isn't it the case that many of the <80% LTV FTBers are likely to be using parental gifts as deposits?

Regardless, the reason they don't go to 80% is more likely to be the LTI restrictions than moral prudence or self-restraint.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:05 pm 
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Here's a different angle. I am FTB and had really only been thinking of purchasing a second hand home and doing it up. I dislike the new designs and lack of space. However, I would probably end up paying overprice and then committing 70-100k to upgrade the house. I am now thinking it is better financially to buy a new, A rated home, at a lower cost (than second hand), saving the upgrade money and getting 20k back. They have just pushed demand onto new builds.

Reduce CGT to 10% and you'll get proper movement in housing sector.

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The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.
Then shits all over the board.
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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:15 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5246
ixus wrote:
Here's a different angle. I am FTB and had really only been thinking of purchasing a second hand home and doing it up. I dislike the new designs and lack of space. However, I would probably end up paying overprice and then committing 70-100k to upgrade the house. I am now thinking it is better financially to buy a new, A rated home, at a lower cost (than second hand), saving the upgrade money and getting 20k back. They have just pushed demand onto new builds.

Noonan's objective is to raise the price of new builds to stimulate supply (his reasoning, not mine).

I know that anecdotally this has happened already but that's just an expectations thing; I'm not sure it will stick.

Sure, it means that FTBs will have more money to spend on new builds, but surely the non-FTBs who were going to buy a shiny new A-rated home will now just switch preference back to second hand homes which offer relatively better value, balancing supply and demand back again.

Overall there will be more money in the market, but I'd guess that will end up spread around evenly.

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