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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:39 am 
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dowtchaboy wrote:
The main abuse, in my opinion, is in the "extras" that are NOT administered by the SW, but by the CWO (Community Welfare Officers) who decide who gets what from a stash channelled via the HSE (which comes originally from Dep of SW). These are the ones you often hear about in outraged calls to Joe Duffy etc. This includes FIS, emergency payments, requests for cash for the kids to go on holidays etc. Again you can see the worthy intentions behind this, but it has got completely out of control. I also have great sympathy for the harassed and haunted looking CWOs I have met - it must be hell having people lined up every day with dire stories (true or not) to be heard.

Yes there IS €10 per week for dogfood if you can produce a dog licence (they don't check if you actually have a dog). Yes there IS €25 per month for phone credit (it's instead of them paying an Eircom landline rent). Dunno about TV licenses, bin tags (we pay our own rubbish charges - €7 every 6 weeks or so when we go to the recycling/dump) and other items that get shouted about.

Yes, it would be great to have CLEAR INFORMATION about what is paid out by Community Welfare Officers - it seems to be kept pretty much under wraps, though no doubt the service users are very familiar with its ways.

I think the Conservatives in the UK brought in a system whereby you can obtain certain benefits UP TO A FIXED LIMIT, so benefits like rent and medical cards are factored in, the idea being that NOT working does not become more attractive than working.

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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:24 pm 
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I read this story and my immediate reaction was "this is typical Indo rabble-rousing"

in the calculations they used at the end of the article they counted child-benefit for the family on welfare but ignored the fact that the working family would also receive it. They also treated pension-payments as a tax with no actual benefit (cynically, this may be true) which also seriously skewed the calculation.


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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:49 pm 
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shweeney wrote:
in the calculations they used at the end of the article they counted child-benefit for the family on welfare but ignored the fact that the working family would also receive it. They also treated pension-payments as a tax with no actual benefit (cynically, this may be true) which also seriously skewed the calculation.

What calculations are you talking about? The ones at the end calculate how much someone would have after tax using figures from Revenue, there's no mention of comparable welfare package at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:18 am 
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www.jobordole.com


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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:23 am 
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Tax Avoider wrote:
http://www.jobordole.com

Very interesting. Renting makes a big difference to the calculation.

For my situation (2 children, spouse not working, not renting) 20k is the cutoff point. Well above the minimum wage...

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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Nice idea but it is missing a lot of extra benefits like medical card, fuel allowance etc. Then there are the harder costs to define like the cost of working.


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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Jun 20, 2010
Posts: 3052
buddygunz wrote:
Nice idea but it is missing a lot of extra benefits like medical card, fuel allowance etc. Then there are the harder costs to define like the cost of working.


Yes. I was about to say this. Bullshit site.


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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:56 pm 
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Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 714
Location: Can't read beyond 12 year old level, especially Russian.
I wouln't say it's bullshit, just not very comprehensive. A lot more people would get the "go on the dole" sign if it was more comprehensive. Suppose it kind of favours working in that sense. Or maybe the guy who made the site had to go and sign on before it was finished. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:18 pm 
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The rent supplement figures are misleading as they vary depending on geographic location.


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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:50 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 583
Location: On the road to nowhere.
Homeboy wrote:
dowtchaboy wrote:
The main abuse, in my opinion, is in the "extras" that are NOT administered by the SW, but by the CWO (Community Welfare Officers) who decide who gets what from a stash channelled via the HSE (which comes originally from Dep of SW). These are the ones you often hear about in outraged calls to Joe Duffy etc. This includes FIS, emergency payments, requests for cash for the kids to go on holidays etc. Again you can see the worthy intentions behind this, but it has got completely out of control. I also have great sympathy for the harassed and haunted looking CWOs I have met - it must be hell having people lined up every day with dire stories (true or not) to be heard.

Yes there IS €10 per week for dogfood if you can produce a dog licence (they don't check if you actually have a dog). Yes there IS €25 per month for phone credit (it's instead of them paying an Eircom landline rent). Dunno about TV licenses, bin tags (we pay our own rubbish charges - €7 every 6 weeks or so when we go to the recycling/dump) and other items that get shouted about.

Yes, it would be great to have CLEAR INFORMATION about what is paid out by Community Welfare Officers - it seems to be kept pretty much under wraps, though no doubt the service users are very familiar with its ways.

I think the Conservatives in the UK brought in a system whereby you can obtain certain benefits UP TO A FIXED LIMIT, so benefits like rent and medical cards are factored in, the idea being that NOT working does not become more attractive than working.


Every payment should be linked to a rsi number. Everything. At the end of the year you would get a statement of income similar to a p60
Once tthe figures have been quantified you could set maximum welfare figure eg 40000 a year


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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:21 pm 
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Private Tenant

Joined: Dec 2, 2008
Posts: 49
dowtchaboy wrote:
metalmike wrote:
By the way don't ever become self-employed - all your PAYE era PRSI contributions will be disregarded and count for nothing, and you will have great difficulty getting Jobseekers Allowance (you cannot get JB at all), even if you were self-employed for just 1 month.


I agree if you want to get welfare dont become self-employed but if everyone stops being self employed where will the jobs come from?

Self employed should be allowed to pay employers PRSI for themselves therefore it becomes self funding to give self employed welfare when their businesses fail or they have no work.


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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Jun 7, 2008
Posts: 2622
yoganmahew wrote:
Tax Avoider wrote:
http://www.jobordole.com

Very interesting. Renting makes a big difference to the calculation.

For my situation (2 children, spouse not working, not renting) 20k is the cutoff point. Well above the minimum wage...


You could replace it with Mortgage Interest Repayment Suppliment. Doesn't matter if you have a mortgage or not, just get one before going on the dole for maximum juice from the governmental carton.


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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:43 am 
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Migrant

Joined: Jun 11, 2010
Posts: 2
tea drinker wrote:
I wouln't say it's bullshit, just not very comprehensive. A lot more people would get the "go on the dole" sign if it was more comprehensive. Suppose it kind of favours working in that sense. Or maybe the guy who made the site had to go and sign on before it was finished. :)
This. It's meant as a quick and dirty simplified calculator. It's comparing two very simple situations and doesn't take into account all the tax relief or welfare benefits you could get. It's about 4 hours of a slow sunday's worth of work so it's not meant to be all encompassing.

Quote:
The rent supplement figures are misleading as they vary depending on geographic location.

The table with all the maximum is available if you click the link titled 'Show/hide a list of the limits.' I just wasn't arsed coding them in.


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 Post subject: Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:48 am 
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Joined: Apr 1, 2009
Posts: 5311
Location: Utopia
yoganmahew wrote:
Tax Avoider wrote:
http://www.jobordole.com

Very interesting. Renting makes a big difference to the calculation.

For my situation (2 children, spouse not working, not renting) 20k is the cutoff point. Well above the minimum wage...
There appears to be an incentive to pay more rent rather than less:

41K per year, 2 kids, spouse not working
at 1500 pm rent,
Quote:
You could get €372.40 per week on the dole with €322.15 in rent allowance for a total of €694.55
You get €685.30 net per week working
at 1400 pm rent,
Quote:
You could get €372.40 per week on the dole with €299.08 in rent allowance for a total of €671.48
You get €685.30 net per week working


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