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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Posts: 3561
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
cent per unit + pso levy + standing charge + vat
Prices include the basic price of the electricity, transmission and distribution charges, meter rental, and other services. Electricity prices for household consumers are presented including taxes, levies, non-tax levies, fees and value added tax (VAT) as this generally reflects the end price paid by household consumers
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... _consumers


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31796
Location: Tullamore
propertyspire wrote:
TheJackal wrote:
I've been looking at solar panels for the roof but can't find any a reliable estimate on how many years to break even?

Same problem
it depends on the mix for home heating.
try the SEAI website calculator

https://www.seai.ie/resources/tools/SEA ... -July.xlsx

Are you looking at PV, TheJackal?
What size?
My PV is at the max allowable (6kw) on a south facing roofat a decent enough angle and will generate 5.2kw in good+ conditions (sun in the day). So that's as much as I can get. I have a heat pump and work from home, so the heating is always on (September to March). Most days March to September, we end up with hot water from the PV. I reckon it's saving somewhere around 1100 a year (this year may be better), so that gives me about 12 years payback (based on an install price less home improvement) of 13k.

Batteries would improve that (no bill in the summer, I reckon), but not enough to justify the price of them at the moment. I may do it out of greenness anyway...

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Jul 24, 2018
Posts: 41
yoganmahew wrote:
propertyspire wrote:
TheJackal wrote:
I've been looking at solar panels for the roof but can't find any a reliable estimate on how many years to break even?

Same problem
it depends on the mix for home heating.
try the SEAI website calculator

https://www.seai.ie/resources/tools/SEA ... -July.xlsx

Are you looking at PV, TheJackal?
What size?
My PV is at the max allowable (6kw) on a south facing roofat a decent enough angle and will generate 5.2kw in good+ conditions (sun in the day). So that's as much as I can get. I have a heat pump and work from home, so the heating is always on (September to March). Most days March to September, we end up with hot water from the PV. I reckon it's saving somewhere around 1100 a year (this year may be better), so that gives me about 12 years payback (based on an install price less home improvement) of 13k.

Batteries would improve that (no bill in the summer, I reckon), but not enough to justify the price of them at the moment. I may do it out of greenness anyway...

Why has the price of PV not fallen?
Rip off republic as usual?


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31796
Location: Tullamore
propertyspire wrote:
Why has the price of PV not fallen?
Rip off republic as usual?

It has, it's less than half the price it was 10 years ago.
If that's not fallen, I don't know what is.

See the US for a 6Kw system:
https://news.energysage.com/how-much-do ... n-the-u-s/
Quote:
In 2018, solar panel costs range from $11,380 to $14,990 (after tax credits). Because price paid per watt ranges from $2.71 to $3.57 and the average U.S household system size is 6 kW (6,000 watts), the average gross solar panel cost is $18,840

That compares favourably with what I paid - you'll often see prices quoted net of grants/tax rebates (of 30% in the US!), so the gross price is fairer.

I was kinda wrong about the price drop, at least for Sidewinder:
https://www.mysolarquotes.co.nz/about-s ... stem-cost/
Quote:
In New Zealand, grid-connected solar power systems now cost 1/4 of what the price was ten years ago. This massive drop in solar power system pricing makes systems more affordable than ever; a solar investment is now achievable for many, not just a few. A standard 3kW system in 2008 cost $40,000; in 2018 the same system averages at $9,000 (completely installed).

The prices in NZ are pretty good, though, lower than here and the US.

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So long and thanks for all the fish.


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:34 am 
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Joined: Sep 29, 2010
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Location: London, innit
The price of the raw panel is a fraction of the total install cost? Fixtures, electricals, labour, VAT...?


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:45 am 
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Joined: Jul 24, 2018
Posts: 41
yoganmahew wrote:
propertyspire wrote:
Why has the price of PV not fallen?
Rip off republic as usual?

It has, it's less than half the price it was 10 years ago.
If that's not fallen, I don't know what is.

See the US for a 6Kw system:
https://news.energysage.com/how-much-do ... n-the-u-s/
Quote:
In 2018, solar panel costs range from $11,380 to $14,990 (after tax credits). Because price paid per watt ranges from $2.71 to $3.57 and the average U.S household system size is 6 kW (6,000 watts), the average gross solar panel cost is $18,840

That compares favourably with what I paid - you'll often see prices quoted net of grants/tax rebates (of 30% in the US!), so the gross price is fairer.

I was kinda wrong about the price drop, at least for Sidewinder:
https://www.mysolarquotes.co.nz/about-s ... stem-cost/
Quote:
In New Zealand, grid-connected solar power systems now cost 1/4 of what the price was ten years ago. This massive drop in solar power system pricing makes systems more affordable than ever; a solar investment is now achievable for many, not just a few. A standard 3kW system in 2008 cost $40,000; in 2018 the same system averages at $9,000 (completely installed).

The prices in NZ are pretty good, though, lower than here and the US.


Ok they have dropped slightly but according to

Quote:
Solar PV electricity costs have fallen 73% since 2010, according to a new cost analysis from the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA). Furthermore, solar PV costs are expected to be cut in half by 2020. The best solar PV projects could be delivering electricity for an equivalent of three cents per kWh or less within the next two years.


https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2 ... half-2020/


Clearly the price drops have not been passed onto the ordinary Josephine soap
I assume part of this is costs of labour for small installations


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31796
Location: Tullamore
propertyspire wrote:
Clearly the price drops have not been passed onto the ordinary Josephine soap
I assume part of this is costs of labour for small installations

Well, as I say, the price I paid is half what I was quoted ten years prior. I'm not sure which of that is not passing on the savings.

I agree with you though, that the labour cost is a significant chunk of a small scale setup. It was a team of 5 including an electrician for a day to do mine. It wouldn't have taken them much less time to do 3kw, though maybe two less chaps.

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So long and thanks for all the fish.


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:08 am 
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A new Fusion Industry Association launched last week. Its initial 16 members and 5 affiliates include most of today's leading private fusion research companies.

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