Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Central Bank

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1022 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1 ... 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:32 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 3635
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
cent per unit + pso levy + standing charge + vat
Prices include the basic price of the electricity, transmission and distribution charges, meter rental, and other services. Electricity prices for household consumers are presented including taxes, levies, non-tax levies, fees and value added tax (VAT) as this generally reflects the end price paid by household consumers
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... _consumers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:23 pm 
Offline
IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31890
Location: Tullamore
propertyspire wrote:
TheJackal wrote:
I've been looking at solar panels for the roof but can't find any a reliable estimate on how many years to break even?

Same problem
it depends on the mix for home heating.
try the SEAI website calculator

https://www.seai.ie/resources/tools/SEA ... -July.xlsx

Are you looking at PV, TheJackal?
What size?
My PV is at the max allowable (6kw) on a south facing roofat a decent enough angle and will generate 5.2kw in good+ conditions (sun in the day). So that's as much as I can get. I have a heat pump and work from home, so the heating is always on (September to March). Most days March to September, we end up with hot water from the PV. I reckon it's saving somewhere around 1100 a year (this year may be better), so that gives me about 12 years payback (based on an install price less home improvement) of 13k.

Batteries would improve that (no bill in the summer, I reckon), but not enough to justify the price of them at the moment. I may do it out of greenness anyway...

_________________
"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:44 pm 
Offline
First Time Buyer

Joined: Jul 24, 2018
Posts: 97
yoganmahew wrote:
propertyspire wrote:
TheJackal wrote:
I've been looking at solar panels for the roof but can't find any a reliable estimate on how many years to break even?

Same problem
it depends on the mix for home heating.
try the SEAI website calculator

https://www.seai.ie/resources/tools/SEA ... -July.xlsx

Are you looking at PV, TheJackal?
What size?
My PV is at the max allowable (6kw) on a south facing roofat a decent enough angle and will generate 5.2kw in good+ conditions (sun in the day). So that's as much as I can get. I have a heat pump and work from home, so the heating is always on (September to March). Most days March to September, we end up with hot water from the PV. I reckon it's saving somewhere around 1100 a year (this year may be better), so that gives me about 12 years payback (based on an install price less home improvement) of 13k.

Batteries would improve that (no bill in the summer, I reckon), but not enough to justify the price of them at the moment. I may do it out of greenness anyway...

Why has the price of PV not fallen?
Rip off republic as usual?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:32 pm 
Offline
IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31890
Location: Tullamore
propertyspire wrote:
Why has the price of PV not fallen?
Rip off republic as usual?

It has, it's less than half the price it was 10 years ago.
If that's not fallen, I don't know what is.

See the US for a 6Kw system:
https://news.energysage.com/how-much-do ... n-the-u-s/
Quote:
In 2018, solar panel costs range from $11,380 to $14,990 (after tax credits). Because price paid per watt ranges from $2.71 to $3.57 and the average U.S household system size is 6 kW (6,000 watts), the average gross solar panel cost is $18,840

That compares favourably with what I paid - you'll often see prices quoted net of grants/tax rebates (of 30% in the US!), so the gross price is fairer.

I was kinda wrong about the price drop, at least for Sidewinder:
https://www.mysolarquotes.co.nz/about-s ... stem-cost/
Quote:
In New Zealand, grid-connected solar power systems now cost 1/4 of what the price was ten years ago. This massive drop in solar power system pricing makes systems more affordable than ever; a solar investment is now achievable for many, not just a few. A standard 3kW system in 2008 cost $40,000; in 2018 the same system averages at $9,000 (completely installed).

The prices in NZ are pretty good, though, lower than here and the US.

_________________
"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:34 am 
Offline
Nationalised

Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Posts: 8784
Location: London, innit
The price of the raw panel is a fraction of the total install cost? Fixtures, electricals, labour, VAT...?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:45 am 
Offline
First Time Buyer

Joined: Jul 24, 2018
Posts: 97
yoganmahew wrote:
propertyspire wrote:
Why has the price of PV not fallen?
Rip off republic as usual?

It has, it's less than half the price it was 10 years ago.
If that's not fallen, I don't know what is.

See the US for a 6Kw system:
https://news.energysage.com/how-much-do ... n-the-u-s/
Quote:
In 2018, solar panel costs range from $11,380 to $14,990 (after tax credits). Because price paid per watt ranges from $2.71 to $3.57 and the average U.S household system size is 6 kW (6,000 watts), the average gross solar panel cost is $18,840

That compares favourably with what I paid - you'll often see prices quoted net of grants/tax rebates (of 30% in the US!), so the gross price is fairer.

I was kinda wrong about the price drop, at least for Sidewinder:
https://www.mysolarquotes.co.nz/about-s ... stem-cost/
Quote:
In New Zealand, grid-connected solar power systems now cost 1/4 of what the price was ten years ago. This massive drop in solar power system pricing makes systems more affordable than ever; a solar investment is now achievable for many, not just a few. A standard 3kW system in 2008 cost $40,000; in 2018 the same system averages at $9,000 (completely installed).

The prices in NZ are pretty good, though, lower than here and the US.


Ok they have dropped slightly but according to

Quote:
Solar PV electricity costs have fallen 73% since 2010, according to a new cost analysis from the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA). Furthermore, solar PV costs are expected to be cut in half by 2020. The best solar PV projects could be delivering electricity for an equivalent of three cents per kWh or less within the next two years.


https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2 ... half-2020/


Clearly the price drops have not been passed onto the ordinary Josephine soap
I assume part of this is costs of labour for small installations


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:01 pm 
Offline
IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31890
Location: Tullamore
propertyspire wrote:
Clearly the price drops have not been passed onto the ordinary Josephine soap
I assume part of this is costs of labour for small installations

Well, as I say, the price I paid is half what I was quoted ten years prior. I'm not sure which of that is not passing on the savings.

I agree with you though, that the labour cost is a significant chunk of a small scale setup. It was a team of 5 including an electrician for a day to do mine. It wouldn't have taken them much less time to do 3kw, though maybe two less chaps.

_________________
"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:08 am 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Apr 1, 2010
Posts: 10874
A new Fusion Industry Association launched last week. Its initial 16 members and 5 affiliates include most of today's leading private fusion research companies.

_________________
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" – Niels Bohr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:16 am 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Apr 1, 2010
Posts: 10874
The Chinese have exceeded a plasma temperature of 100 million degrees by combining four different heating modes. Even more importantly:

Quote:
The experiment also provided key data for the validation of heat exhaust, transport and current drive models, all of which will be crucial to the realization of several major fusion projects. These include the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER), the Chinese Fusion Engineering Test Reactor (CFETR) and the DEMOnstration Power Station (DEMO).

More...


... plus, the ongoing Chinese fusion efforts are open source, which could end up being very good news for the world.

_________________
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" – Niels Bohr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:18 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Apr 1, 2010
Posts: 10874
Russia is developing an interesting fusion-fission reactor:

https://www.neimagazine.com/news/newsru ... or-6168535

People may have heard of the thorium fuel cycle. Thorium is much more abundant than uranium but is referred to as a "fertile" rather than "fissile" material, as it cannot be directly fissioned. By capturing a neutron and undergoing beta decay, however, 232-Th can be transmuted to fissile 233-U. So thorium can be combined into a mixed oxide (MOX) fuel with other fissile elements. One great upside is that it can burn up existing stockpiles of plutonium and other bomb-grade materials, and the waste is radioactive for only 70 years (instead of millions).

The Russian concept is to forget about other fissile materials altogether and use a tokamak fusion reactor as the neutron source. If it sounds like sci-fi, bear in mind that neutron-producing tokamak fusion is routine nowadays, it is only net energy fusion that is still a challenge. So you pay for the energy to produce your neutrons, and get it back with interest from your thorium reaction.

_________________
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" – Niels Bohr


Top
 Profile  
 



Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1022 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1 ... 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103  Next

    Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Central Bank

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], Luan, NegativeEquity, newirishman and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  

Follow, Retweet @dailypinster



Pyramid Built, Is Better Built! - Latest Property Discussions www.thepropertypin.com