Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Central Bank

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1022 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1 ... 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98 ... 103  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:04 pm 
Online
Old Time Landlord

Joined: Jan 31, 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Middle Earth
Key 'step forward' in cutting cost of removing CO2 from air - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44396781

And it's byproduct is liquid fuel, ICE isn't dead yet


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:04 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance
User avatar

Joined: Aug 20, 2009
Posts: 5210
Reduction in renewable power levy could cut €213m from bills

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/ene ... -1.3522996

Quote:
The energy regulator plans to cut the State’s renewable power levy in a move that will slice a potential €213 million from electricity bills.


Quote:
Interested parties have until June 29th to respond to the CRU’s proposal. The regulator will decide on the levy decrease in August and implement the new charge in October.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:52 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Oct 19, 2010
Posts: 2680
Location: Dublin SE
Latest Solar PV contracts to charge 2.6 - 3 cents / kwh.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/warren-buff ... lar-95208/

A modern natural gas plant generates it for 3 cents / kWh. How long before all other fossil fuel forms of generating elicrtcity are made economically obsolete?

Not sure to put this in the Tesla or Peak Oil thread.

_________________
"Perfect is the enemy of the good"
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:25 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Mar 14, 2013
Posts: 1925
Terra Incognita wrote:
Latest Solar PV contracts to charge 2.6 - 3 cents / kwh.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/warren-buff ... lar-95208/

A modern natural gas plant generates it for 3 cents / kWh. How long before all other fossil fuel forms of generating elicrtcity are made economically obsolete?

Not sure to put this in the Tesla or Peak Oil thread.

The main issue is availability at peak times. It creates a duck curve from demand supply mismatch. The cost needs to account for storage if possible plus storage losses. Probably we would need north of 3 GW of storage too handle peak supplies. Someone with a bit more knowledge will correct me no doubt.

_________________
An increase in the number of paupers does not broaden the market. M. Kalecki


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:16 am 
Offline
IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31894
Location: Tullamore
werpen wrote:
The main issue is availability at peak times. It creates a duck curve from demand supply mismatch. The cost needs to account for storage if possible plus storage losses. Probably we would need north of 3 GW of storage too handle peak supplies. Someone with a bit more knowledge will correct me no doubt.

Probably the CO2 capture -> fuel from renewable water splitting is the most interesting storage method I've seen recently. Not in terms of ICE, but in terms of ramp-up power.

I also think that Peter F. Hamilton has it right, and I'm currently buying mid-Atlantic real estate... ;)

_________________
"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:45 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Apr 1, 2010
Posts: 10877
yoganmahew wrote:
werpen wrote:
The main issue is availability at peak times. It creates a duck curve from demand supply mismatch. The cost needs to account for storage if possible plus storage losses. Probably we would need north of 3 GW of storage too handle peak supplies. Someone with a bit more knowledge will correct me no doubt.

Probably the CO2 capture -> fuel from renewable water splitting is the most interesting storage method I've seen recently. Not in terms of ICE, but in terms of ramp-up power.

Do you mean this one? ...

owenm wrote:
Key 'step forward' in cutting cost of removing CO2 from air - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44396781
And it's byproduct is liquid fuel, ICE isn't dead yet

I'm quite dubious. They've been developing it for nine years and have had their prototype plant running for six and a half. What stopped them from moving to commercialisation in the mean time, and why are they only putting out a paper with costs now? Plus those costs are only nailed down to within a factor of three.

The problem I see is that it bolts (at least) two unrelated processes together. Why make your fuel out of captured carbon when you can make it out of plentifully available rocks? Just burn limestone to produce CO2 for your fuel. Most people realise that ordinary rocks don't burn, so might smell a rat when it comes to the efficiency of the process. And they'd be right -- calcination of limestone needs a source of heat (178.3 kJ/mol) to liberate CO2, not to mention further energy to synthesise fuel. Whatever heat is liberated by burning the fuel to CO2 is what's required to reconstitute it, assuming a 100% efficient process. And in this case they even have to make the limestone first, by reducing potassium carbonate to hydroxide first to liberate carbonate ions. What's the bets that all that heat liberated in the air contactor with its large surface area is lost to the environment? So the system is a closed cycle for the chemicals, but certainly not for energy. That's why they need a free source of waste heat such as an incinerator to make the numbers add up.

Image

Another way to look at it is this: nobody's managed to do cost-effective CO2 sequestration even with the exhaust of a fossil fuel power plant, where you have a concentrated source of already hot CO2. What makes us think anyone can do it with the extremely rarefied source in air? The other Swiss crowd who are doing carbon capture from air reckon it'll take them until 2030 to get the cost down from $600/tCO2 to $100. Sounds suspiciously like one of those promises that "things will get better after fifteen years of subsidies ... honest!".

_________________
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" – Niels Bohr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:14 pm 
Offline
IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31894
Location: Tullamore
Drat :)

Okay, back to gold to lead transmutation...

_________________
"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:05 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Feb 1, 2008
Posts: 2899
Location: God's Country
Why isn't electricity cheaper?

Here's your answer > https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/crazy-maths-makes-nonsense-of-irish-climate-change-policy-1.3530732


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:04 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Oct 20, 2012
Posts: 2021
Inis Man wrote:


Amazing, so by 2030 we will spend well over a billion euro on subsidies for burning peat for electricity

Why not stop this madness and use the money to convert Moneypoint to Natural gas and build an LNG terminal

_________________
Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man


Last edited by the dude on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:48 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Oct 19, 2010
Posts: 2680
Location: Dublin SE
the dude wrote:
Inis Man wrote:


Amazing, so by 2030 we will spend well over a billion euro on subsidies for burning peat for electricity

Why not stop this madness and use the money to convert Moneypoint to Natural gas and build an LNG ternimal


That is nuts. Imagine where we would be by 2030 if we spent €100m a year of that money on solar and battery storage. We would probably be energy independent by that stage but instead we will still be burning peat to keep the lights on.

_________________
"Perfect is the enemy of the good"
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)


Top
 Profile  
 



Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1022 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1 ... 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98 ... 103  Next

    Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Central Bank

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GameBlame, Glasnevinuser, owenm and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  

Follow, Retweet @dailypinster



Pyramid Built, Is Better Built! - Latest Property Discussions www.thepropertypin.com