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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:08 am 
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Epicurus wrote:
Plus being cashless would make any possible future bail ins of depositors a lot easier to implement. No messy visuals of punters queing up outside a Northern Rock. Where and when, who knows.


And makes it easier to implement negative interest rates for depositors.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:02 pm 
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cashless banking means that one is getting a haircut on their savings, and the only thing holding back negative interest rates is the physical cash in circulation.

if anything, I see more ATMs popping up all around the place in shops/bars , the use of outdated and unsupported operating systems mustn't be a problem then.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:14 pm 
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the dude wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
If the power is out most shops already won't process transactions. Their tills won't work and their cash drawers won't open.


The till can be opened without electricity, when the power is gone they use a calculator to add up your bill

Well thats the way they do it round my way


Maybe in a corner shop run by the owner. Won't happen in a Tesco or Spar. Till is linked to stock control; double they'll even keep the door open without power due to liability, no CCTV, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:19 pm 
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ixus wrote:
Yeah, and for that matter, how do you go anywhere without googlemaps? Heat your food without a microwave? Watch a match without the TV?

Did everyone just spontaneously combust in Puerto Rico?

Sure all a terrorist has to do now is knock out the power for a day or two and we're fkd.


I spend a bit of time thinking about this stuff because I'm secretly a bit of a prepper. IMHO losing power is the worst utility loss we could have. In addition to the stuff you pointed out above, most modern gas boilers won't light without electricity, not to mention thermostats and immersions not working. A large number of people in Ireland would struggle to cook food or heat their house or water without electricity. Within 24 hours you'd have lots of cold, hungry and pies off people.

After two to three days of wide scale power outage you'd start to lose telecoms of various sorts, starting with mobile but ultimately some datacenter-based stuff too if it went on longer. It would not be pretty.

Things like water, gas, or petrol would be easier to deal with in terms of a week's outage IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:26 am 
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Mantissa wrote:
ixus wrote:
Yeah, and for that matter, how do you go anywhere without googlemaps? Heat your food without a microwave? Watch a match without the TV?

Did everyone just spontaneously combust in Puerto Rico?

Sure all a terrorist has to do now is knock out the power for a day or two and we're fkd.


I spend a bit of time thinking about this stuff because I'm secretly a bit of a prepper. IMHO losing power is the worst utility loss we could have. In addition to the stuff you pointed out above, most modern gas boilers won't light without electricity, not to mention thermostats and immersions not working. A large number of people in Ireland would struggle to cook food or heat their house or water without electricity. Within 24 hours you'd have lots of cold, hungry and pies off people.

After two to three days of wide scale power outage you'd start to lose telecoms of various sorts, starting with mobile but ultimately some datacenter-based stuff too if it went on longer. It would not be pretty.

Things like water, gas, or petrol would be easier to deal with in terms of a week's outage IMHO.


Oh, I'm fully on board here.
Let's not forget all the fancy Dan new water pumps that won't work without electricity.
During Ophelia, we had no options for heat (gas), electrical generation, cooking (electric hobs) or water in the modern house I rent. No mobile or wireless. Can become vulnerable very quick if not into prepping.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:56 am 
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People don't prepare enough for low-probability, high-impact events.

The decision to nix the proposed LNG terminal at Foynes a few years ago was a huge mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:54 pm 
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How likely is an extended Island-wide electrical blackout? When we were putting in our kitchen my da told us to have an electric oven and a gas cooker that way you'll always have something to heat water/cook on.

You can get camping gas stoves easy for a €10 from halfords and enough gas for a few days of cooking and tea for €10.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:02 pm 
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tulip wrote:
How likely is an extended Island-wide electrical blackout? When we were putting in our kitchen my da told us to have an electric oven and a gas cooker that way you'll always have something to heat water/cook on.

You can get camping gas stoves easy for a €10 from halfords and enough gas for a few days of cooking and tea for €10.


Going further OT - but "local storage" is already required in the current infrastructure: pretty much every house has some water storage / buffer tank in the attic. Something I haven't seen in any other (continental) European country. So apparently we accept that the water infrastructure is crap and very likely to fail, otherwise why do this?
You could argue that it is therefore only a small step to put in a local gas and electricity buffer. Arguably the engineering is more complicated.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:39 pm 
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newirishman wrote:
tulip wrote:
How likely is an extended Island-wide electrical blackout? When we were putting in our kitchen my da told us to have an electric oven and a gas cooker that way you'll always have something to heat water/cook on.

You can get camping gas stoves easy for a €10 from halfords and enough gas for a few days of cooking and tea for €10.


Going further OT - but "local storage" is already required in the current infrastructure: pretty much every house has some water storage / buffer tank in the attic. Something I haven't seen in any other (continental) European country. So apparently we accept that the water infrastructure is crap and very likely to fail, otherwise why do this?
You could argue that it is therefore only a small step to put in a local gas and electricity buffer. Arguably the engineering is more complicated.


If you have oil you already have backup heating. I'd imagine there are safety concerns around storing gas and electricity onsite.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:32 pm 
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tulip wrote:
newirishman wrote:
tulip wrote:
How likely is an extended Island-wide electrical blackout? When we were putting in our kitchen my da told us to have an electric oven and a gas cooker that way you'll always have something to heat water/cook on.

You can get camping gas stoves easy for a €10 from halfords and enough gas for a few days of cooking and tea for €10.


Going further OT - but "local storage" is already required in the current infrastructure: pretty much every house has some water storage / buffer tank in the attic. Something I haven't seen in any other (continental) European country. So apparently we accept that the water infrastructure is crap and very likely to fail, otherwise why do this?
You could argue that it is therefore only a small step to put in a local gas and electricity buffer. Arguably the engineering is more complicated.


If you have oil you already have backup heating. I'd imagine there are safety concerns around storing gas and electricity onsite.


Most oil burners are controlled electrically. I know mine won't work when the power is off.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:27 pm 
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Also you need electricity for the pump and controls.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:30 pm 
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tulip wrote:
You can get camping gas stoves easy for a €10 from halfords and enough gas for a few days of cooking and tea for €10.


Yup, that's what I have. With a camping stove you can cook, sterilise water for drinking, and heat small quantities of water for washing. Although most homes have a reasonable amount of water in their tanks I also keep a few dozen litres of bottled water (I figure water distribution is one of the easiest things for the government to do so I don't keep that much).

I also have a reasonably large USB battery pack with a solar charger, and a mobile phone with a prepay SIM from a different network (one that does not share much infrastructure with my main mobile provider). Also, I try and keep a full tank of petrol in the car when there's a risk of extreme weather -- a car can provide you with heat, light, radio and a way to charge devices, as well as getting you out of danger.

Everyone laughs, except the time the power went out in SCD for a Saturday morning and I was the only one on the road with coffee and pancakes. They didn't laugh then, I tell you.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:53 pm 
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greentree wrote:
Most oil burners are controlled electrically. I know mine won't work when the power is off.

dolanbaker wrote:
Also you need electricity for the pump and controls.


That makes sense now that you mention it.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:19 pm 
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tulip wrote:
greentree wrote:
Most oil burners are controlled electrically. I know mine won't work when the power is off.

dolanbaker wrote:
Also you need electricity for the pump and controls.


That makes sense now that you mention it.


My oil boiler is rated at 800w. I'm not kidding, between the oil pump, the water pump, the fan, the burner and the ignition system it can use that apparently. It's a forgotten saving that you achieve when you install a wood burning stove - your electricity bill goes down too.

800w is a lot when you consider a 3 bed semi probably uses 150w for lighting if every bulb in the house in on, 800w is also about a third of the current used by a kettle.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Flying Brussels to Heathrow this morning with BA and the in-flight service doesn't accept cash.....


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