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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:56 am 
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IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31854
Location: Tullamore
taipeir wrote:
In ten years time you will rue the chance you had to stick a few quid in ripple, ethereum, bitcoin, iota, Eos etc.

Noticed you are changing your tune already...rise from the ashes lol. So there is a future for crypto now.

The inventor(s) of bitcoin deserves the Nobel prize for economics more than the Robert Shiller's of this world. It's not perfect but economically its a transformative technology.

The only ripple I'll be at is a Galaxy one...

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"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:57 am 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Jan 19, 2009
Posts: 212
Quote:
Censorship resistant payments.


Quote:
cryptocurrency has the potential to make taxation quite difficult.


These are the only type of answers that come up to the question, what are Crypto currencies actually going to be used for? What use case do they solve?

These arguments only hold up while the number Crypto currencies transactions are at a nuisance level for tax avoidance/criminal activity. If the use of Crypto raises to the level that there is significant volumes of traffic on it, the semi-anonymous nature of it will be clamped down hard on.

There are many ways to do this.

It's a straight forward job to identify people involved in Crypto currency transfers. It takes a little time and effort, but how to do it is known and straight forward. The majority of people that have or have had Crypto coins at some time obtained them through public exchanges that require KYC information to be held on them. With a little paper work the relevant authorities can get that information. From these people it is then just another step to identify any unknown people who traded with the 'known' wallets; rinse and repeat.

An even easier way to kill off Crypto is something as follows. For example, every single international money transfer into and out of China has to be registered with authorities; failure to do so is a serious criminal offense. Using this, make a handful of transactions from a non Chinese Crypto wallet into a number of different business in China. Wait for a couple of weeks to see that the transactions are not appropriately logged as international money transfers. Send a bunch of cops to grab and throw the owners of the business in jail; publicize it everywhere. The idea is not to send them to Jail permanently, or even to convict them, rather make it too dangerous and or too inconvenient to be involved with Crypto in anyway. Is this legal, moral? Is this coercion? Possibly, but do you really want to be arguing this with a judge while you sit in jail for an unknown amount of time?


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:59 am 
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Back Home with Mammy

Joined: Oct 7, 2017
Posts: 63
The Curious One wrote:
NorthDub Paul wrote:

Do you not believe that any cryptos will ever have any real world use or value?


Nope.

I've yet to see a use case articulated for which cryptos can actually be used for that can not be done better with existing technology. Actually, I've yet to see a use case described that Bitcoin can actually be used for at all without enormous difficulty.

- Instant payments: Bitcoin is not applicable here. Bitcoin has an inbuilt minimum transaction time of about an hour; it is impossible with Bitcoin to do transactions faster than this. Frequently it is twelve to twenty four hours to process a transaction. To do instant payments one needs a separate technology built on top of Bitcoin, think Visa who maintain their own ledger of balances for users.



"BBVA’s latest implementation of blockchain tech follows a previous trial wherein the bank used crypto startup Ripple’s blockchain in a successful real-world money remittance pilot between Spain and Mexico. The pilot saw 50-euro-denominated payments from Spain to Mexico in a matter of seconds, compared to traditional banking wires that take up to 4 days."
https://www.ccn.com/spains-bbva-registe ... lockchain/


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:32 am 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Jan 7, 2008
Posts: 643
The Curious One wrote:
An even easier way to kill off Crypto is something as follows.


It's not always as simple as you make out. If your wallet is one transaction away from Bitstamp you're right, but there are many techniques that can be used to increase anonymity. The scenario some of us are interested in is: what if the crackdown fails?

The Curious One wrote:
Instant payments: Bitcoin is not applicable here. Bitcoin has an inbuilt minimum transaction time of about an hour; it is impossible with Bitcoin to do transactions faster than this. Frequently it is twelve to twenty four hours to process a transaction. To do instant payments one needs a separate technology built on top of Bitcoin, think Visa who maintain their own ledger of balances for users.


https://lightning.network/


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:34 am 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 811
Quote:
It's a straight forward job to identify people involved in Crypto currency transfers.
:roll:


First you would have to know a transfer actually took place and between which jurisdictions and for what purpose.

You don't need to transfer on an exchange you know. You just need a private key and a public key and access to a coin wallet.

You simply can give a person a piece of paper or a USB stick with the keys and it becomes their account.

How does one know that an individual holds these public keys and private keys? They are called decentralised currencies for a reason.

You call that straightforward?

Even when you transfer from an exchange it's easy to anonymise.

This was the spin.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/530-mill ... m-confirms

This was the reality.
https://news.bitcoin.com/nem-foundation ... coincheck/


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:57 am 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 811
Speculatively further down the line trading in digitised copies of real world objects could be a huge use case.

So property, works of art, vintage cars, stuff that may be hard to move around and valuable. With a smart contact and immutable digital copy you have something that can be traded with a high degree of confidence.

In the case of cars or second hand products you could imagine that the products current state is tracked with sensors all through its life cycle and the object itself is imaged to a very high resolution. This digital copy could be updated in real time or at set intervals. You wouldn't need to see or touch the object that was traded and no agent is required as a middleman.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 892
The US town banning new Bitcoin mines

Quote:
Power-intensive Bitcoin mining has been eating up Plattsburgh's electricity quota and pushing up bills for local residents.

Now the local government has imposed an 18 month moratorium on commercial cryptocurrency mines setting up shop.

https://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audi ... coin-mines

Warren Buffett on buying bitcoin: 'That is not investing'
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-b ... ccounter=1

Quote:
“If you buy something like a farm, an apartment house, or an interest in a business… You can do that on a private basis… And it’s a perfectly satisfactory investment. You look at the investment itself to deliver the return to you. Now, if you buy something like bitcoin or some cryptocurrency, you don’t really have anything that has produced anything. You’re just hoping the next guy pays more.”


Quote:
“You aren’t investing when you do that. You’re speculating. There’s nothing wrong with it. If you wanna gamble somebody else will come along and pay more money tomorrow, that’s one kind of game. That is not investing.”


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 811
Reading Buffets comments it's clear he doesn't have the foggiest idea about cryptocurrencies or their diverse uses.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 892
He doesn't have to go into the minutie.

He looks at the fundamentals and he identifies value.
Afaik the man is some kind of savant at that particular task.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Nationalised

Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 11773
Location: Multiverse
snaps wrote:
He doesn't have to go into the minutie.

He looks at the fundamentals and he identifies value.
Afaik the man is some kind of savant at that particular task.


As Buffet has explained many times, he knows what he knows, and avoids the rest.
He doesn't buy gold either.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:36 am 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Jul 31, 2009
Posts: 127
Mining is an environmental disaster. All the major mining rigs/groups have centralised the bitcoin blockchain with their processing power. It's gone against the original idea to be decentralised. There will be a major shakeup down the line and only some will survive. Bitcoin is like Altavista or Myspace due to first mover advantage. Tech is advancing all the time and it will render blockchain 1.0 and 2.0 obsolete.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 811
Agreed,so newer blockchains and even Ethereum are moving to PoS , DPoS, DBFT and non Blockchains such as DAG.

IOTA and NANO use PoW but the resources required are very minor compared to Bitcoin.

By the way IOTA is building up critical mass now folks should take a look at it. It's criticised endlessly by bitcoiners and miners as it represents a big threat to their investments.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 811
After taking the time to calmly read through this thread again I've decided I need to take a more objective view and broaden my information sources. Remove the emotions and use cold hard logic.

Having read this article from a respected financial publication it's really made me think again.

http://www.businessinsider.com/williams ... 13-12?IR=T

Quote:
The market has finally realized that hype alone cannot support lofty prices. Bitcoin is not a legitimate currency but simply a risky virtual commodity bet.


Quote:
Bitcoin has seen an end to its hyper price run-up and can no longer support being priced for perfection. Unlike gold which has tangible value, Bitcoin is backed by hopes/dreams and only worth what people are willing to pay. As it becomes increasingly evident that Bitcoin will not be the global currency standard, but simply a novel idea that will be improved upon by more nimble competitors such as Litecoin, restrictions and new regulations will be imposed and prices will plummet.




I owe you all an apology.





For absolutely fu#*ing nutin!

(Sorry couldn't resist it, some of you will get the reference have a good Sunday folks XD ).


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 892
Study claims Bitcoin uses as much energy as Ireland, but experts don't agree
http://www.euronews.com/2018/05/18/stud ... st-n875211
Quote:
The latest spotlight on the conversation came from a study published Wednesday that was produced by Dutch researcher Alex de Vries, who concluded that the Bitcoin network consumes nearly as much electricity as the nation of Ireland.




Greenhouse gases/CO2 emissions/sustainability...... makes one wonder...

Bitcoin wasters


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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Nationalised
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Joined: Jan 4, 2013
Posts: 17351
Location: To the right of the decimal place
taipeir wrote:
Decentralisation produces an unprecedented trust-less solution where anonymous actors and global strangers can interact wjthout fear of data or funds being stolen or hacked. The system cannot be shut down or altered without over 51% of the owners agreeing.

The system got altered when hackers manage to get 51% of hashing power. $20m stolen.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/enterpr ... rypto-jack

I've been warning about this in this thread for yonks. People like you keep claiming it can't happen.

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