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 Post subject: Re: Pubs going bust
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:27 am 
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UK Lidl cider 2l 5.3%alcohol £1.99
IE Lidl cider 2l 5.3% €3.79


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 Post subject: Re: Pubs going bust
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:50 am 
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This is going to hit ordinary punters hard make no mistake with minimal to no benefits to public health. I have very limited disposable income due to crippling mortgage commitments due to my income falling when I had to switch professions in the downturn due to redundancy. I watch every penny and I am lucky to darken the doors of a licenced establishment about 3 or 4 times a year with the missus and about 2-3 times a year with friends purely for 'pints'. I already avoid social events due to not being able to afford to go out which is embarrassing and detrimental to my mental health as I feel I am losing touch with family/friends. My drinking habits consist of 8 -12 cans of tuborg (4%abv) or bavaria (4.3% abv) on the weekend with one or two craft beers as a 'treat' - I reckon I will be €15-€20 per month out of pocket and just pissed off in general with being stiffed for spurious public health reasons.

Is the alcoholic reducing their cheap cider intake from 80 to 60 units per week really going to improve their health enough to see an improvement in public finances?


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 Post subject: Re: Pubs going bust
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Location: London, innit
owenm wrote:
slasher wrote:
owenm wrote:

Revenue's real target are the large supermarkets selling below cost. One was selling wine cheaply as a loss leader which resulted in them claiming more vat back on the purchase than they were remitting on the final sale and I recall a figure of a €60m p.a loss to the exchequer.



that could have been ringfenced easily enough though?


Not my area but the mechanics of vat are relatively simple until you tinker with them I believe. Loss leaders might have always triggered such revenue losses but the scale here was remarkable, also you might be accused of restricting free competition but you have the moral cause of preventing social harm in this measure.

It just also now occurs to me, what happens with a liquidators sale where this might occur - do we want another layer of billable administration in the cash cow that is liquidation?

yeah I'm told VAT is tricky for accounting

I was more thinking that as alcohol is a special case you say no more below cost selling/if you do you won't get VAT back on it. B


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 Post subject: Re: Pubs going bust
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Is there any proof that raising the price of a drug reduces it's consumption. I know that raising the price of smokes has, but that was an across the board raise and all brands were raised. It also increased cigarette smuggling, my mother can buy a pack of smokes in her local for half the retail price from an old dear in the corner.
This rise will affect only those on lower incomes as it raises the base price, middle class and upper class Alcos will be unaffected by any of this.

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 Post subject: Re: Pubs going bust
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:23 pm 
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temene wrote:
UK Lidl cider 2l 5.3%alcohol £1.99
IE Lidl cider 2l 5.3% €3.79


I just ran the tax calculations on this for my own amusement. The Euro price difference between Ireland and the UK is €1.56 per bottle. Of that the Irish government takes €1.32 and the remaining €0.24 goes to the retailer/distributor/manufacturer.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Pubs going bust
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:26 pm 
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Boston wrote:
Slightly off topic but in my local Sainburys here in London a 2 ltr bottle of own brand cider (4%) is £2.15.
Beside it was another brand of cider (5.2%) again 2 ltr at £2.55.

I'm sure you can get cheaper in Asda or Lidl.

I don't believe anyone buys this stuff other than those looking to get absolutely pi*ss*ed as cheaply as possible or those seriously damaged by alcohol abuse.

I buy the budget cider for marinating pork and ham and budget beer to use as an ingredient in chili con carne. So I'll get hit if/when this comes in, but not hugely.

tulip wrote:
This rise will affect only those on lower incomes as it raises the base price, middle class and upper class Alcos will be unaffected by any of this.

Unless, as has already been pointed out above, everything else increases price in lockstep.

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 Post subject: Re: Pubs going bust
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Quote:
I buy the budget cider for marinating pork and ham

I do a pork and cider stew on occasion but have generally shied away from the really cheap stuff. perception as much as anything I suppose

JohnnyTheFox wrote:
Unless, as has already been pointed out above, everything else increases price in lockstep.



I guess if you are a retailer you want to steer a certain cohort (who are used to drinking low-quality booze) towards your highest margin product i.e. the low quality stuff, therefore, the stuff just around the min price has to go up


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 Post subject: Re: Pubs going bust
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:17 pm 
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tulip wrote:
Is there any proof that raising the price of a drug reduces it's consumption.

I don't know about it reducing consumption, but for serious addicts, they'll find the money somewhere!
Result is more poverty in the drinkers family or increased crime as the money has to be found.

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 Post subject: Re: Pubs going bust
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:26 pm 
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dolanbaker wrote:
tulip wrote:
Is there any proof that raising the price of a drug reduces it's consumption.

I don't know about it reducing consumption, but for serious addicts, they'll find the money somewhere!
Result is more poverty in the drinkers family or increased crime as the money has to be found.


That'd be my feeling on it too. Alchoholism a lot of the time is a symptom of other problems, a price increase does nothing to address those problems. It'll also mean a different cost benefit analysis, it may push alcoholics into stronger drinks that give better ALC% to € benefits.

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 Post subject: Re: Pubs going bust
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Evidence for the benefits of minimum pricing. http://www.ias.org.uk/uploads/pdf/News%20stories/iasreport-thomas-stockwell-april2013.pdf


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