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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:57 am 
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Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
ps200306 wrote:
Sosthenes wrote:
Its important to remember that this startling implosion is about the negotiating stance that the UK govt will take in its approach to Brexit, we're nowhere near a negotiated outcome or resolution to the issue.

It seems unlikely there's going to be any negotiation on the current proposal. The White Paper will come out on Thursday, and the EU will shoot it down in flames by Monday. The hardline Brexiteers will snort and say "I told you so" about lack of EU generosity and flexibility, and hard Brexit will then be the only game in town. If there's going to be a heave either within or against the Tories, it'll happen then.



The EU will shoot down any proposal. Hard Brexit here we come. And a good thing at that.


The EU will not reject this proposal. They will describe it as an “interesting” starting point and then tell the UK to do a lot more work. Cue further meltdowns. The EU is a negotiating machine.

There is no majority in Parliament for a hard brexit and that will not happen. The UK is screwed, and they know it.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:56 am 
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Saibhreas wrote:
There is no majority in Parliament for a hard brexit and that will not happen. The UK is screwed, and they know it.

I wonder what the reaction on the streets will be when the average punter realises that too.

Will the sense of powerlessness only fuel the likes of For Britain etc...?

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:39 pm 
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catbear wrote:
Saibhreas wrote:
There is no majority in Parliament for a hard brexit and that will not happen. The UK is screwed, and they know it.

I wonder what the reaction on the streets will be when the average punter realises that too.

Will the sense of powerlessness only fuel the likes of For Britain etc...?


All my English friends appear to harbour deep dislike and distrust for the establishment.

However they will only utter what are non PC view points in private. This is unhealthy and will ultimately provoke a reaction.

If Brexit is shot down or substantially diluted , (throw in England winning the World Cup (God forbid!)), I could see such views coming out into the open.

20,000 people marched in London recently in support of Tommy Robinson. It was barely reported on in any mainstream media outlet.

Abandonment/substantial dilution of Brexit would surely spark serious anger across the UK

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Ixelles wrote:
I'd be inclined to agree with superman on that. The EU can't accept the 'free market for goods and food (only)' proposal but would be mad to dismiss it. They'll probably say it's a basis for negotiation, welcome elements of it, note the integrity of the Single Market in passing <cough>the four freedoms are indivisible</cough>, and then spell out the hard facts later in the summer. Unless they want to get rid of May, of course..

Two years on from the vote and amazingly some politicians in the UK still seem to think that compromising on the four freedoms is a basis for negotiation.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
If Brexit is shot down or substantially diluted , (throw in England winning the World Cup (God forbid!)), I could see such views coming out into the open.

20,000 people marched in London recently in support of Tommy Robinson. It was barely reported on in any mainstream media outlet.

Abandonment/substantial dilution of Brexit would surely spark serious anger across the UK

I've noted the same in the part of north England I'm in at the moment. After the Arena bombing last year there seemed to be some sort of Britain First march which would never be covered in the media and this year it seems to have morphed into the Football Lads Alliance thing. What seems to be happening is that these groups are gravitating towards each other, add to them For Britain who have carved off that radical right wing of UKip.

I can see them dusting off that residual England wide UKip organisational apparatus for their own use.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Mar 14, 2013
Posts: 1925
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
catbear wrote:
Saibhreas wrote:
There is no majority in Parliament for a hard brexit and that will not happen. The UK is screwed, and they know it.

I wonder what the reaction on the streets will be when the average punter realises that too.

Will the sense of powerlessness only fuel the likes of For Britain etc...?


All my English friends appear to harbour deep dislike and distrust for the establishment.

However they will only utter what are non PC view points in private. This is unhealthy and will ultimately provoke a reaction.

If Brexit is shot down or substantially diluted , (throw in England winning the World Cup (God forbid!)), I could see such views coming out into the open.

20,000 people marched in London recently in support of Tommy Robinson. It was barely reported on in any mainstream media outlet.

Abandonment/substantial dilution of Brexit would surely spark serious anger across the UK

What are they going to do about it, whinge? Vote out the tories?

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:01 pm 
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werpen wrote:
What are they going to do about it, whinge? Vote out the tories?

Farage is threatening to come out of retirement...


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:37 pm 
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slasher wrote:
werpen wrote:
What are they going to do about it, whinge? Vote out the tories?

Farage is threatening to come out of retirement...

Isnt he an MEP, :-GC

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:36 am 
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Rumours abound that the EU is considering rejecting May's plan. I cannot see how a hard Breixt is not inevitable.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Boris Johnson in his resignation letter wrote:
“If a country cannot pass a law to save the lives of female cyclists — when that proposal is supported at every level of UK Government — then I don’t see how that country can truly be called independent.”


imagine that the EU would block the UK from saving female (female!!) cyclists!!!

Quote:
What have female cyclists got to do with Brexit?
Mr Johnson is known for his sometimes-tangential anecdotes — as anyone who remembers his speech at the 2008 Olympics, in which he claimed the British invented table tennis under the name “whiff whaff”, will tell you.

But we were still a little surprised to discover that this parting missive on the issue of Brexit — which he was apparently still writing when Number 10 confirmed his departure — spends a lot of time on vehicle regulation.

The former Foreign Secretary wrote: “we seem to have gone backwards since the last Chequers meeting in February, when I described my frustrations, as Mayor of London, in trying to protect cyclists from juggernauts.

“We had wanted to lower the cabin windows to improve visibility; and even though such designs were already on the market, and even though there had been a horrific spate of deaths, mainly of female cyclists, we were told we had to wait for the EU to legislate on the matter.”

His concluding thought on the issue: “If a country cannot pass a law to save the lives of female cyclists — when that proposal is supported at every level of UK Government — then I don’t see how that country can truly be called independent.”

“Supported at every level of UK Government”?
That’s quite a compelling account of how the EU has stifled common sense policy-making by a national government. The problem is, Mr Johnson is wrong.

It’s true that when he was Mayor of London, Mr Johnson campaigned to introduce tougher rules on lorry safety to protect cyclists.

But he’s left out some key details.

For one thing, he neglects to mention that the regulations he’s talking about were in fact put forward by the European Parliament, and backed by 570 MEPs, with 88 voting against. He also fails to acknowledge that those laws have actually been passed.

More crucially, Mr Johnson is wrong to say that the laws in question were “supported at every level of UK Government.”

When the regulations were put forward by the EU, the UK government explicitly did not support the proposals.

A government spokesperson told BBC News in 2014: “Where we are not supporting European Parliament proposals, it is simply because they will not produce practical changes in cab design and could lead to additional bureaucracy for Britain.”

The European Council, which includes representation from the UK government, later adopted the directive.

Mr Johnson should know he is wrong
It’s curious that Mr Johnson has chosen this particular example to demonstrate what he sees as the problems with EU regulation.

Not only did he know that the European Parliament had proposed the laws, he also knew that the UK government opposed them — because he explicitly called out ministers on the issue at the time.

In January 2014, Mr Johnson said: “If these amendments, supported by dozens of cities across Europe, can succeed, we can save literally hundreds of lives across the EU in years to come. I am deeply concerned at the position of the British Government and urge them to embrace this vital issue.”

Perhaps in his hasty drafting, Mr Johnson has misremembered the exact chain of events.

A source close to Mr Johnson told FactCheck: “Boris called for change more than a year before EU measures came into force. If we had taken back control we could have implemented them immediately in order to save lives.”


https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... ion-letter


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