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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Anyone see today's BBC Marr show? Marr seriously challenged May on Brexit. Really odd staring!
Full programme


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Jeremy Hunt addressing the Tory conference right now. It's stomach churning. He has flat out said the EU is deliberately punishing the UK with economic disruption and is trying to break up the UK. He's told them not to mistake British politeness for British weakness, and that they had better accept the hand of British friendship. Rapturous applause all round, of course. Needless to say, Hunt is much more conciliatory when talking about unity among Tories. He says the Parliament, government and cabinet must be united in case they get the wrong Brexit, maybe even no Brexit, or -- god forbid -- a Corbyn Brexit.

I'm afraid the Brits are irredeemably sclerotic. They are blind to their own bad manners, threatening behaviour, and broken promises. I also think, with the EU, they are going to find themselves in the position of the schoolyard bully who has met his match. I truly don't want to see Brexit go badly, but I have to stop watching people like Hunt ... he makes me want to see them getting their asses kicked from here to their first WTO agreement with Madagascar.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Yikes. When May went brexit means brexit this time two years ago it really hit the pound. With such antagonism in the final stretch I can image a lot of business slapping the bailout button unless May offers some glimmer.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:16 am 
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catbear wrote:
Yikes. When May went brexit means brexit this time two years ago it really hit the pound. With such antagonism in the final stretch I can image a lot of business slapping the bailout button unless May offers some glimmer.

I just watched that Andrew Marr show that temene linked. He really sticks it to her -- first time I've seen anyone challenge her so robustly on the near impossibility of the EU accepting her proposal (let alone her own government). In fairness, it's also the first time I've seen her admit how much she's caught between a rock and a hard place. She admits that Bojo's Canada+ proposal fails to address the NI border problem. But she's adamant that EFTA/EEA is not what "the people" voted for which makes Chequers the only game in town. On the question of how much she is prepared to compromise when the inevitable showdown fails to go her way, she remains tight lipped. She wouldn't answer questions about her own colleagues pulling the plug on her if she looks like budging an inch.

I agree with you. Sentiment is going to go severely downhill from here on in, as it's clear there is no Plan B.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:42 am 
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P.S. It'll be interesting to watch Sterling the next couple of weeks. It had nosedived in early September but bounced back on the erroneous reports in the British press that Europe was warming to the Chequers plan. Then it tumbled again after Salzburg ten days ago, but strangely bounced back a bit. I can see it testing those lows again.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:58 am 
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ps200306 wrote:
Jeremy Hunt addressing the Tory conference right now. It's stomach churning. He has flat out said the EU is deliberately punishing the UK with economic disruption and is trying to break up the UK. He's told them not to mistake British politeness for British weakness, and that they had better accept the hand of British friendship. Rapturous applause all round, of course. Needless to say, Hunt is much more conciliatory when talking about unity among Tories. He says the Parliament, government and cabinet must be united in case they get the wrong Brexit, maybe even no Brexit, or -- god forbid -- a Corbyn Brexit.

I'm afraid the Brits are irredeemably sclerotic. They are blind to their own bad manners, threatening behaviour, and broken promises. I also think, with the EU, they are going to find themselves in the position of the schoolyard bully who has met his match. I truly don't want to see Brexit go badly, but I have to stop watching people like Hunt ... he makes me want to see them getting their asses kicked from here to their first WTO agreement with Madagascar.


From Jeremy Hunt, UK Foreign Secretary: "A bad Brexit deal will stir Britain's 'Dunkirk spirit'"

Sounds like a threat wrapped up in a war reference..


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:10 am 
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You should listen carefully when Mr. Junker speaks...
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/100 ... it-planes/
Quote:
Juncker says Brexit campaign short on 'actual information'
European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker has suggested that British planes may not be able to land in the EU if Brexit goes wrong.

And Mr Juncker said a four-day quarantine may be imposed on pet dogs and cats passing from the UK to continental Europe, and again on their return journey.

Speaking at a public meeting in Freiburg, Germany, Mr Juncker asked: "What's going to happen to air traffic in Europe if everything goes wrong?

"British planes will not be able to land on the European continent.

"People didn't know that. Someone should have told them beforehand."

Mr Juncker said: "What I really regret in the context of Brexit is that there was no real Brexit campaign in terms of actual information in the United Kingdom.

"The people are finding out now - including British ministers and ministers on the continent - how many questions it poses, all the things we need to resolve.
>>>

when he's drunk it's hard to understand what Jean-Claude says...

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:11 am 
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Quote:

Philip Hammond: UK will enforce hard border in Ireland if there is no Brexit deal
The chancellor’s words appear to undermine the official government position.

BIRMINGHAM, England — Britain would have to enforce border controls on the Irish border if the U.K. leaves the European Union without a deal, Chancellor Philip Hammond said today.

In remarks which appear to undermine the official government position that the U.K. will do all it can to avoid border checks after Brexit, Hammond said that under World Trade Organization rules, London would have no choice but to reinstate checks.


Speaking at a fringe event at the Conservative Party conference in Birmingham, Hammond said: “The challenges around the Irish border are around the legal requirements we will have if we are not in a trade block within the European Union to operate the WTO compliant border, which does require checks at the border. That’s what the WTO rules require.”

“We are depending on the WTO to regulate our relations with the rest of the world, we will have to comply with the rest of WTO regulations or we will find we can’t enforce our WTO rights against others,” he said.

Hammond’s remarks are in stark contrast to Prime Minister Theresa May’s refusal to answer the question in her interview with the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show on Sunday.



https://www.politico.eu/article/philip- ... exit-deal/

But, but some genius here said it was the EU who wanted to impose a border not the UK


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:20 am 
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Could they really have been this organised all along?

Quote:
Right, I really don't care whether people listen to this Brexit thread. It's just here. This is a sanitised briefing. It is rated as "high level of confidence" and supported by OSINT, meaning it comes from multiple, reliable sources and is supported by open source information.

Numerous sources have confirmed the British government is deliberately aiming for a no deal Brexit outcome in order to take advantage of extended powers available to them under the scenario - including civil contingencies and so-called Henry VIII.

The Chequers plan is a ploy designed to engage the EU in distraction from the desired British outcome and create a false narrative at home in the UK that the EU are responsible.

Sources claim emergency legislation is being prepared for January next year (2019) when the Withdrawal Act no deal deadlines pass - this would be 29/01 and the civil contingencies secretariat have been convened as per leaked Hammond notes recently, adding credibility.

On Ireland: The British government hopes the EU will be forced to move first and install a hard border in Ireland in order to avoid blame itself for a situation it has created. Further sources claim the data harvested during Repeal 8th will be used in some "unity" campaigns.

... continues


https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1046828583484821504

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:25 am 
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Quote:
A dramatic legal bid to win the UK Parliament a right to revoke Article 50 which is due to be heard by the highest court in Europe is likely to succeed - raising the prospect of Brexit being halted before March next year, one of the nation’s leading experts on EU law insists.

Dr Tobias Lock, Director of European law post-graduate study at the Edinburgh Law School and author of The European Court of Justice and International Courts, said the case due to call within weeks could be decided by Christmas.

The legal action has been brought in a rare show of co-operation between Labour, Green and SNP politicians and involves MEP David Martin, MEP Catherine Stihler, MEP Alyn Smith, MP Joanna Cherry, MSP Andy Wightman and MSP Ross Greer.

Their previous attempts were rejected by government lawyers as “hypothetical and academic” and initially dismissed.

But on appeal to the Court of Session. Lords Carloway, Menzies and Drummond Young agreed it should be referred to the European Court of Justice as a matter of urgency, before Westminster votes on any Brexit deal, ahead of the current final deadline of March 29 next year.

Now Dr Tobias says it is his considered opinion, the European Court will most likely rule in their favour. That would open the door, in theory, to MPs being able to cancel Brexit and stay in the EU if no deal is reached or they are left dissatisfied with the proposed terms.

The core of the argument is whether the UK could revoke Article 50 without requiring the assent of the other 27 EU members, and allow the UK Parliament the right to withdraw Article 50 - even if the UK Government itself still wanted to press ahead.

Writing in today’s The Herald, Dr Tobias says: “My bet would be that the European Court will rule that Article 50 can be unilaterally revoked - although there is no certainty in this.

“Procedurally the ECJ would send the decision back the Court of Session, and they would then pass judgement and it will become authoritative in UK law.

...


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/169 ... o-succeed/

What would a European Court decide? :x

We all know how long European Court rulings can take to be acted on though. See Apple Tax refund thread. So could it really make a difference at this stage?

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The real damage is done by those millions who want to 'get by'. The ordinary men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won’t take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what?
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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:46 am 
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Dubhgeannain wrote:
Could they really have been this organised all along?

Quote:
Right, I really don't care whether people listen to this Brexit thread. It's just here. This is a sanitised briefing. It is rated as "high level of confidence" and supported by OSINT, meaning it comes from multiple, reliable sources and is supported by open source information.

Numerous sources have confirmed the British government is deliberately aiming for a no deal Brexit outcome in order to take advantage of extended powers available to them under the scenario - including civil contingencies and so-called Henry VIII.

The Chequers plan is a ploy designed to engage the EU in distraction from the desired British outcome and create a false narrative at home in the UK that the EU are responsible.

Sources claim emergency legislation is being prepared for January next year (2019) when the Withdrawal Act no deal deadlines pass - this would be 29/01 and the civil contingencies secretariat have been convened as per leaked Hammond notes recently, adding credibility.

On Ireland: The British government hopes the EU will be forced to move first and install a hard border in Ireland in order to avoid blame itself for a situation it has created. Further sources claim the data harvested during Repeal 8th will be used in some "unity" campaigns.

... continues


https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1046828583484821504


Yes and equally no but Yes is always possible.

Now you know what the medias roll in life is and continues to be. Keep everyone in the dark. or Damage enemies while keeping you in the dark.

You need to re-read military opinions in the days before Brexit. Figure in Uk & Global Intel agencies roll in all of this (if you can not easy tbh). They've been getting' it in the neck from USA and Trump admin. It's hard to read. Don't consume low-quality low-nutritional daily media. Turn off your TV. Think. Then seek. Then think so more if you find. Rinse and repeat.

Even the toxic source of media have nuggets of truth but they're often easier to spot in hindsight.

There is more to that tweet so I'll post it:

Quote:
The British government has progressed trade talks with the US to the point of potential emergency supply, moving substantially beyond informal discussions - though the Trump administration should not be taken at its word, a degree of reliance on this has been factored in UK side.

The government intends to create a tax haven on the EU's doorstep to exploit financial service deregulation. This speaks for itself.

The British government aims to prevent France and other EU countries from properly preparing for no deal by continuing to falsely engage in the negotiations in bad faith, keeping the EU27 from moving from early stage plans to contingency measures as long as possible.

The British government hopes this will create a ripple effect of impact so it can later pursue a "Europe in chaos" narrative of disinformation and exploit the situation. In short hoping to spread the load of no deal impact, particularly into France due to geographical impact.

The British government hopes this collateral damage will add to planned disruption around the EU election processes next spring and they will use dissident relationships to further this - likely to include Orban.

The British are aware that contingency planning in France has not yet reached operational unit level even in the GIGN because the general French presumption is that the British government is genuinely engaged in good faith, which they are not.

Just as an note on the reference to the GIGN, as it appears people have trouble reading only what’s written:


I have no previous exposure to that twitter account so take the info as being used as it's comes as a relatively reputable channel that will get enough exposure i.e. the message out:

  • Could have been been given partially correct and partially incorrect info to release, without knowing which but from a source of trust. So they run with it in full.

    • to disturb by exposing plans as outlined. (Treacherous)
    • as a controlled release (ply public support) and to cause the other side to panic/blink first etc. etc.
  • or is completely wrong/junk

Probably a few combinations but you get the idea.

From an Irish point of view, our boys and girls at the top have sunken deep between the folds of the plush and comfy couches of EU Imperial court and I would imagine feel very assured mind the chaos. Makes you consider if Ireland being allied with it's Stockholm captors is not a recipe for long term success. 8- :x XD 8- 8DD XX :sick: :|

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:54 am 
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What I don't understand about revoking A50 without EU consent is that it essentially says all Treaty protocols are optional, and if so then why the UK could opt out of Freedom of Movement. On that basis I can't see the ECJ, which exists by the treaties undermining its own existence.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:00 pm 
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Arlene wants to amend the GFA! :roll:

So we have the DUP wanting to change a peace process voted for by binding referendums on both sides of the border to facilitate a non binding referendum?

Only for there's already a UUP her party could be called the Undemocratic Unionist Party!

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:05 pm 
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catbear wrote:
Arlene wants to amend the GFA! :roll:

So we have the DUP wanting to change a peace process voted for by binding referendums on both sides of the border to facilitate a non binding referendum?

Only for there's already a UUP her party could be called the Undemocratic Unionist Party!

She can't, any changes would need to be ratified by all sides!

Sounds like DUP would quite happily put up a fence if they could.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Brexit for Kids by RTÉ

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