Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4875 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 292, 293, 294, 295, 296, 297, 298 ... 325  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:29 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Dec 2, 2013
Posts: 2700
dolanbaker wrote:
catbear wrote:
Arlene wants to amend the GFA! :roll:

So we have the DUP wanting to change a peace process voted for by binding referendums on both sides of the border to facilitate a non binding referendum?

Only for there's already a UUP her party could be called the Undemocratic Unionist Party!

She can't, any changes would need to be ratified by all sides!



Sounds like DUP would quite happily put up a fence if they could.


Arlene has been against the GFA since 1998. Just because she became First Minister under the agreement doesnt mean she's in favour of the agreement. A bit like De Valera.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/nort ... 330877.stm

But what's important is who if any on the British Tory side contradicts her and how strenuously. Last time this came up in February David Davis slapped it down.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-43126409


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:48 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail
User avatar

Joined: Aug 21, 2009
Posts: 4525
Location: Mesopotatia

_________________
The real damage is done by those millions who want to 'get by'. The ordinary men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won’t take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what?
Sophie Scholl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:51 pm 
Offline
Back Home with Mammy

Joined: Oct 7, 2017
Posts: 63
Links not working

Edit - Sorry it is now!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:54 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 1909
Dubhgeannain wrote:


Interesting clip. Mike Nesbitt, a unionist, seems sane and capable of understanding the complexity of individual and community identities - not what we're used to due to DUP hardliners.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:40 pm 
Online
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 6018
Location: SthDub
Nesbitt is UUP not DUP. hence the relative normality displayed in that piece


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:57 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 1909
FreeFallin wrote:
Nesbitt is UUP not DUP. hence the relative normality displayed in that piece


Oh, I know that - DUP hardliners have given unionists a bad name on both sides of the water.

They mention that SF is on board with letting people who identify as British have British passports (they would no longer be UK passports, I suppose) in a united Ireland. Interesting idea. We should think more about the kinds of concessions the majority will need to make if unification ever happens. It wouldn't be a case of 'them' signing up to our Republic - it would be a merger, albeit the unionist/protestant/orange communities will be a minority.

How can we convince them that we won't be dicks?

Mike Nesbitt for President, anyone?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:24 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail
User avatar

Joined: May 6, 2008
Posts: 4813
Location: the nearest faraway place
Ixelles wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
Nesbitt is UUP not DUP. hence the relative normality displayed in that piece


Oh, I know that - DUP hardliners have given unionists a bad name on both sides of the water.

They mention that SF is on board with letting people who identify as British have British passports (they would no longer be UK passports, I suppose) in a united Ireland. Interesting idea. We should think more about the kinds of concessions the majority will need to make if unification ever happens. It wouldn't be a case of 'them' signing up to our Republic - it would be a merger, albeit the unionist/protestant/orange communities will be a minority.

How can we convince them that we won't be dicks?

Mike Nesbitt for President, anyone?!

How do Irish people in NI get their passports? They apply to another jurisdiction for them, people in NI who wish to remain solely British citizens after partition ends can apply to London for their passports. There's over a 100.000 Brits resident in the republic and they get by.

There's no concessions to be made.

_________________
Every single frozen corpse in the Death Zone on Everest was once a highly motivated person.

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:55 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 1909
GFA makes clear that anyone born in N.I. can be British or Irish or both. The new bit would be that this would extend to 32 countries. The concession is really from the UK in that someone born in Kildare could technically apply for UK citizenship if they felt like it. But people in Ireland would have to be fine with the UK acknowledging/accepting/claiming someone from Leitrim as their citizen.

But that's just an example. What else? St Patrick's Day is a national day. What about 12th July? How can that be accommodated? It's particularly contentious and objectionable to many, but we'd need to somehow respect a celebration of that culture/tradition etc.

No doubt people sneer at phrases like cross-community dialogue, but could we have a kind of citizens' assembly to better understand all perspectives and start to prepare? What practical tips can be taken from Germany? Any lessons from Hong Kong's return to China?

And then there's the massive economic issue (echoes of Germany there) for which nobody is well prepared. I spoke to a northern 'nationalist' recently who would only bother with reunification if they still had free school books for their kids. A bit small, I thought, but bread and butter things like that can go under the radar in constitutional debates.

Even Peter Robinson has been saying everyone needs to think about how it would happen, given the shambles of trying to force Brexit through in 2-3 years. (He probably reckons we'd realise it's not as desirable as some have led us to believe - but either way he's right to suggest we get into the detail of it asap.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:02 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Apr 4, 2010
Posts: 4718
Ixelles wrote:
GFA makes clear that anyone born in N.I. can be British or Irish or both. The new bit would be that this would extend to 32 countries.


Do you know something about EU expansion that we don't? :nin :wink:

_________________
People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.


Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:22 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 1909
:lol:

We'll be down to 27 after Brexit and then there are five official candidate countries, so 32 sounds about right!
I can't see Turkey ever being admitted, to be honest


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:43 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Apr 1, 2010
Posts: 10826
Ixelles wrote:
GFA makes clear that anyone born in N.I. can be British or Irish or both. The new bit would be that this would extend to 32 countries.

Are you sure about that? We currently only offer Irish citizenship to people from the six counties of NI, not the 100 counties of the UK. Why would the Brits extend citizenship to 32 counties and not just six?

_________________
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" – Niels Bohr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:39 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation
User avatar

Joined: Oct 20, 2010
Posts: 2225
catbear wrote:
How do Irish people in NI get their passports? They apply to another jurisdiction for them, people in NI who wish to remain solely British citizens after partition ends can apply to London for their passports. There's over a 100.000 Brits resident in the republic and they get by.

There's no concessions to be made.

But people in Northern Ireland don't apply to Dublin, or the Embassy in London, for their Irish passports. They go to the local Post Office in Northern Ireland, which accepts an Irish passport application pretty much the same way as An Post does here. That the British Post Office is processing Irish passport application is a pretty significant concession. If there was a change of status and it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the postal service of a united Ireland to agree to process British passport applications as a concession.

_________________
banana republic, septic isle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:47 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail
User avatar

Joined: May 6, 2008
Posts: 4813
Location: the nearest faraway place
JohnnyTheFox wrote:
catbear wrote:
How do Irish people in NI get their passports? They apply to another jurisdiction for them, people in NI who wish to remain solely British citizens after partition ends can apply to London for their passports. There's over a 100.000 Brits resident in the republic and they get by.

There's no concessions to be made.

But people in Northern Ireland don't apply to Dublin, or the Embassy in London, for their Irish passports. They go to the local Post Office in Northern Ireland, which accepts an Irish passport application pretty much the same way as An Post does here. That the British Post Office is processing Irish passport application is a pretty significant concession. If there was a change of status and it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the postal service of a united Ireland to agree to process British passport applications as a concession.

We can process their applications but we can't issue them. Our social services already talk with eachother, I got my UK national insurance number recently by producing my Irish social services card.

_________________
Every single frozen corpse in the Death Zone on Everest was once a highly motivated person.

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:57 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail
User avatar

Joined: May 6, 2008
Posts: 4813
Location: the nearest faraway place
Ixelles wrote:
But that's just an example. What else? St Patrick's Day is a national day. What about 12th July? How can that be accommodated? It's particularly contentious and objectionable to many, but we'd need to somehow respect a celebration of that culture/tradition etc.

They've not comparable. Patrick preached to the masses, King Billy was helping one bunch of people to kill another. May as well have a Cromwell day just cause he promoted the cause of England in Ireland.

Ending partition does not mean we're joining NI.

Protestants and Brits live prosperous lives in the republic as is, but the unionist identity is based on rejecting that opportunity. If the border does go there'll be plenty of people in unionist areas who will be glad to join us in this century.

I respect Arlene Foster when she says she'd probably leave if partition ended, that's her affair and I certainly won't stop her and those loyalists who feel the same.

_________________
Every single frozen corpse in the Death Zone on Everest was once a highly motivated person.

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:24 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Apr 1, 2010
Posts: 10826
catbear wrote:
Protestants and Brits live prosperous lives in the republic as is, but the unionist identity is based on rejecting that opportunity. If the border does go there'll be plenty of people in unionist areas who will be glad to join us in this century.

I respect Arlene Foster when she says she'd probably leave if partition ended, that's her affair and I certainly won't stop her and those loyalists who feel the same.

I think there's more to Ulster Protestant identity than just pure rejectionism. I know older CofI people in the Republic whose own parents would have been keenly aware of the passing of an era after Irish independence, and an effect on their own culture as the Protestant population declined significantly. Only a minority of nordie Prods are Lambeg drum-beating triumphalists. They're entitled to their concerns about their cultural identity in a united Ireland. Not to mention social questions like abortion and gay marriage (on which I'd happily join them myself in the previous century :wink: ).

_________________
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" – Niels Bohr


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4875 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 292, 293, 294, 295, 296, 297, 298 ... 325  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  

Click for Latest Posts LATEST POSTS Click for Forum List FORUMS   

Follow, Retweet @dailypinster

  

Pyramid Built, Is Better Built!