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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:51 am 
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temene wrote:
Evil_g wrote:
An inability to distinguish between free movement of EU citizens and migration from non-EU countries is a peculiarly British trait.
I disagree.
There was a massive influx from the A10 EU countries from 2004 onwards. Just like Ireland had.
This put massive pressure on services, stretching them severely, creating relative hardship for Brits.
Voters make the connection. Prior to 2004, there was free movement, but it was not an issue.

Non EU migration made up 2/3rd of the migration to the UK. The A10-EU migration issues were a limited temporary "problem" in that the A10 now have full FOM in Europe, so have more options than Ireland, UK and Sweden , in any case the economy in Poland (the biggest "exporter") is booming (so less push factor) and EU migration is also limited by the fact that as EU citizens can travel throughout the EU and back and forth, they are less bound to stay permanently in the UK.
That is aside from cultural similarities etc.

Other European countries were more concerned with non EU migration which is not self limiting in nature and involves some people who have antithetical cultural values.

The leave campaign further conflated the 2 by asserting that Turkey would shortly join the EU.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Evil_g wrote:
temene wrote:
Evil_g wrote:
An inability to distinguish between free movement of EU citizens and migration from non-EU countries is a peculiarly British trait.
I disagree.
There was a massive influx from the A10 EU countries from 2004 onwards. Just like Ireland had.
This put massive pressure on services, stretching them severely, creating relative hardship for Brits.
Voters make the connection. Prior to 2004, there was free movement, but it was not an issue.


EU wide, support for free movement runs at 82%, with opposition running at 14% (Ireland is 90% vs. 6%).

Only UK voters have made the connection between their stretched public services and eastern Europeans.

Free movement works both ways, many in Ireland like the fact that they can move to another EU country.
Same can be said for many other EU citizens.

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Our whole economy is based on planned obsolescence, and anyone who can read without moving his lips should know it by now: Brooks Stevens.
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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:05 pm 
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dolanbaker wrote:
Free movement works both ways


That's another principle that I think your average Brexit supporter has yet to get their head around.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Posts: 826
The average brexit supporter was over a certain age, a large number were pensioners and not concerned about losing their own jobs.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:58 pm 
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taipeir wrote:
The average brexit supporter was over a certain age, a large number were pensioners and not concerned about losing their own jobs.

No, but they still think they can retire to Spain post-Brexit :|

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:30 pm 
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temene wrote:
Evil_g wrote:
An inability to distinguish between free movement of EU citizens and migration from non-EU countries is a peculiarly British trait.
I disagree.
There was a massive influx from the A10 EU countries from 2004 onwards. Just like Ireland had.
This put massive pressure on services, stretching them severely, creating relative hardship for Brits.
Voters make the connection. Prior to 2004, there was free movement, but it was not an issue.

It's sad but inevitable that we'll be hearing nursing home horror stories from the UK that will remind us of Ceausescu's orphanages. The real elephant in the room is the babyboomer tsunami overtaking the NHS, and losing the EU labour pool at this critical time is the silent disaster that will only become apparent later.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... n-bedsores

Unfortunately the most vocal Leave voters I've met in my few years here are the babyboomers.

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Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:12 pm 
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catbear wrote:
The real elephant in the room is the babyboomer tsunami overtaking the NHS, and losing the EU labour pool at this critical time is the silent disaster that will only become apparent later.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... n-bedsores


And when the EU labour pool grows old, who works in the carehomes?


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:15 pm 
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I presume ye all know about this troll
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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:01 pm 
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tinneym wrote:
catbear wrote:
The real elephant in the room is the babyboomer tsunami overtaking the NHS, and losing the EU labour pool at this critical time is the silent disaster that will only become apparent later.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... n-bedsores


And when the EU labour pool grows old, who works in the carehomes?

Good question and one that's increasingly appearing across other threads.

The Japanese, like the Brexiters promising technological solutions, have given up on the heavily touted solution of robots as care assistants, immigration from surrounding SE asia has increased in the last ten years.

At least Brexit in this regard brings discussion about the agequake rapidly forward.

The movie Logan's Run was based on the 60/70s panic of rapid population growth, the underworld city represented a limited environment where the population were only let live till 30 years of age until they ascend in the carousel for "renewal". Do not be surprised if we start hearing about babyboomer goodbye parties.

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Every single frozen corpse in the Death Zone on Everest was once a highly motivated person.

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:54 pm 
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Joined: Aug 23, 2008
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Location: Bogtrotterland!
catbear wrote:
temene wrote:
Evil_g wrote:
An inability to distinguish between free movement of EU citizens and migration from non-EU countries is a peculiarly British trait.
I disagree.
There was a massive influx from the A10 EU countries from 2004 onwards. Just like Ireland had.
This put massive pressure on services, stretching them severely, creating relative hardship for Brits.
Voters make the connection. Prior to 2004, there was free movement, but it was not an issue.

It's sad but inevitable that we'll be hearing nursing home horror stories from the UK that will remind us of Ceausescu's orphanages. The real elephant in the room is the babyboomer tsunami overtaking the NHS, and losing the EU labour pool at this critical time is the silent disaster that will only become apparent later.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... n-bedsores

Unfortunately the most vocal Leave voters I've met in my few years here are the babyboomers.

I don't see why it has to be migrants working in care homes, there are plenty of UK born to work in those places, like what are all the unemployed to do.

Anyway, I think I would prefer to take a long walk on a short pier than to fade away in one of those places. My wife used to work in a nursing home, so she knows the horrors that face us all if our bodies live longer than we do!

_________________
Our whole economy is based on planned obsolescence, and anyone who can read without moving his lips should know it by now: Brooks Stevens.
Planned obsolescence, one of the largest contributors to the man made element of climate change, but the one least discussed: dolanbaker
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild


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