Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Central Bank

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5028 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1 ... 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 495, 496 ... 503  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:29 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Apr 4, 2010
Posts: 4734
If you're into futures, go long on tarmac and tin cans?

_________________
People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.


Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:36 pm 
Offline
Real Estate Developer
User avatar

Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Posts: 872
Location: North Dublin
Just watched the Channel 4 “Brexit” movie starring Benedict cumbersquatch.
Of course dramatised but bloody hell, that’s some story....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:25 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 3637
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
Theresa May is under massive pressure from senior ministers to face down Tory rebels who are threatening to kill off the government in order to avoid crashing out of the EU.
More than a dozen Tory MPs have made clear they would back a no-confidence vote and force an election if Mrs May tried a no-deal Brexit.
But Brexiteers are advising Mrs May to defy the threat and use her discretion to decide the date of any national vote - setting it for April 4.
Parliament dissolved during March for an election campaign, which would still be ongoing on March 29 when the UK is due to leave the EU. In effect that could force no-deal Brexit

:!:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:46 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail
User avatar

Joined: Aug 21, 2009
Posts: 4533
Location: Mesopotatia
temene wrote:
Theresa May is under massive pressure from senior ministers to face down Tory rebels who are threatening to kill off the government in order to avoid crashing out of the EU.
More than a dozen Tory MPs have made clear they would back a no-confidence vote and force an election if Mrs May tried a no-deal Brexit.
But Brexiteers are advising Mrs May to defy the threat and use her discretion to decide the date of any national vote - setting it for April 4.
Parliament dissolved during March for an election campaign, which would still be ongoing on March 29 when the UK is due to leave the EU. In effect that could force no-deal Brexit

:!:


What happens when you run down the clock.

_________________
The real damage is done by those millions who want to 'get by'. The ordinary men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won’t take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what?
Sophie Scholl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:31 pm 
Offline
IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31895
Location: Tullamore
Dubhgeannain wrote:
What happens when you run down the clock.

...is you change how you're counting time...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-pa ... s-46810616
Quote:
Boom! After a humdrum, almost completely unrevealing Prime Minister's Questions, the Commons erupted over Speaker John Bercow's decision to allow an attempt to change the rules for the resumed "meaningful vote" debate.

This is no mere technicality. The amendment proposed by former Attorney General Dominic Grieve would require the government to come back within three days, rather than 21, to debate the implications of not having a Brexit deal - if the prime minister's deal is indeed voted down next Tuesday.

...

Sweeping precedent?

I don't want to delve too deeply into the arcana of Business of the House motions only amendable by ministers of the Crown, but this drove a coach and horses through accepted normal practice, and will have huge implications for the course of Brexit.

The decisions will come much faster, and potentially, those plotting an alternative course to the PM's would have more space in which to work.

And it may also set a sweeping precedent allowing MPs far more grip over their debates, on Brexit and pretty much anything else.

If such a precedent can be made to stick, it would be a huge blow against any government's accustomed control over the business of the Commons.
>>>


Constitutional (or rather Prerogative) crisis anyone?

_________________
"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:34 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5480
It just shows how out of touch politicians are that pissing off for several weeks holiday over Christmas a couple of months before the end of the world is considered fine, whereas allowing elected MPs to vote on a motion is considered the end of the world.

_________________
"It's easy to confuse what is with what ought to be, especially when what is has worked out in your favour"
Tyrion Lannister


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:27 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 6336
Location: On the Road
yoganmahew wrote:
Dubhgeannain wrote:
What happens when you run down the clock.

...is you change how you're counting time...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-pa ... s-46810616
Quote:
Boom! After a humdrum, almost completely unrevealing Prime Minister's Questions, the Commons erupted over Speaker John Bercow's decision to allow an attempt to change the rules for the resumed "meaningful vote" debate.

This is no mere technicality. The amendment proposed by former Attorney General Dominic Grieve would require the government to come back within three days, rather than 21, to debate the implications of not having a Brexit deal - if the prime minister's deal is indeed voted down next Tuesday.

...

Sweeping precedent?

I don't want to delve too deeply into the arcana of Business of the House motions only amendable by ministers of the Crown, but this drove a coach and horses through accepted normal practice, and will have huge implications for the course of Brexit.

The decisions will come much faster, and potentially, those plotting an alternative course to the PM's would have more space in which to work.

And it may also set a sweeping precedent allowing MPs far more grip over their debates, on Brexit and pretty much anything else.

If such a precedent can be made to stick, it would be a huge blow against any government's accustomed control over the business of the Commons.
>>>


Constitutional (or rather Prerogative) crisis anyone?


The principle underpinning the above basically renders all the bluster of those heralding impending doom, food shortages, planes being grounded, trade ceasing etc etc as the nonsense that it has always been.

As evidenced above any rule or protocol may be amended or ignored at the stroke of a pen (bank bailout people?) meaning the 'crisis' around Brexit is and always has been, a political one.

Civil Servants, bureaucrats and business people will simply set about the practical business of ensuring that the world does not end post-Brexit....if they are permitted to do so. Practicality will be the order of the day, and post teething period, life will go on, not exactly the same but not that different either.

The problem lies solely at the political level where the two opposing camps are vying for dominance....with the prestige and perhaps future viability of their respective world views on the line. Practically every commentator, including here, is positioned on one side or the other and frames their arguments accordingly.

A real talent would be the ability to discern who amongst them/us actually believes their own spin.

_________________
"It is difficult to be certain about anything except what you have seen with your own eyes, and consciously or unconsciously everyone writes as a partisan.”
― George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:59 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5480
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
The problem lies solely at the political level where the two opposing camps are vying for dominance....with the prestige and perhaps future viability of their respective world views on the line.

Not that simple. There are many factions in this game, and they cross party lines.

It's not just about in/out. It's about what "out" should look like.

May has presented the negotiations as "getting the best deal possible", but there is no consensus on what that should look like. She wants the status quo minus free movement. Most Tories are pro-free movement because they're pro-business and business doesn't want labour shortages pushing up wages.

Corbyn is at war with his own parliamentary party and membership and voters. He thinks we can restore wage bargaining power by restricting immigration, and shore up British industries with trade barriers and State support (at least I think that's what he wants, but maybe he just wants to nationalize everything because he's a lunatic socialist). A decent chunk of Labour supporters see restrictions on free movement as being driven by racism, and are therefore ideologically opposed, the "I am a citizen of the world" types. Another chunk vote Labour because they're poor, and support Corbyn's effort to restore wage bargaining power through labour market controls.

And the DUP don't give a shit about any of that. They are the real identity politicians.

So I really don't see how you can view this as a "both sides" thing.

_________________
"It's easy to confuse what is with what ought to be, especially when what is has worked out in your favour"
Tyrion Lannister


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:43 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 6336
Location: On the Road
Eschatologist wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
The problem lies solely at the political level where the two opposing camps are vying for dominance....with the prestige and perhaps future viability of their respective world views on the line.

Not that simple. There are many factions in this game, and they cross party lines.

It's not just about in/out. It's about what "out" should look like.

May has presented the negotiations as "getting the best deal possible", but there is no consensus on what that should look like. She wants the status quo minus free movement. Most Tories are pro-free movement because they're pro-business and business doesn't want labour shortages pushing up wages.

Corbyn is at war with his own parliamentary party and membership and voters. He thinks we can restore wage bargaining power by restricting immigration, and shore up British industries with trade barriers and State support (at least I think that's what he wants, but maybe he just wants to nationalize everything because he's a lunatic socialist). A decent chunk of Labour supporters see restrictions on free movement as being driven by racism, and are therefore ideologically opposed, the "I am a citizen of the world" types. Another chunk vote Labour because they're poor, and support Corbyn's effort to restore wage bargaining power through labour market controls.

And the DUP don't give a shit about any of that. They are the real identity politicians.

So I really don't see how you can view this as a "both sides" thing.


Thats a fair response.

But in my view it is rooted in what is increasingly coming to feel like an outdated post-war dichotomy.

I see Brexit, Trump and now the Yellow Vests as manifestations of the same broad groundswell of anti-establishment mood that is making itself heard across the western world....with the establishment consisting of those who are part of the 'game' (what McWilliams might label 'insiders') regardless of their political/ideological persuasion. The fact that you acknowledge that the divisions cut across the traditional divide of left-right/conservative-liberal-socialist faultlines seems to actually underscore such an interpetation.

While undoubtedly there are some racist/genuinely far-right elements that are seeking to travel within these so-called 'populist' movements, its clearly the case that they encompass a lot more than such simplistic labelling. For example, it could be argued that issues centered around genuinely representative democracy and the concept of national sovereignty (perhaps even the future existence of nation states themselves) as well as attituides to erosion of the gains made by the European working classes in the wake of their sacrifices across two world wars, are more indicative of the true ideological faultlines that underpin the debate arond these matters....despite the manner in which they are often presented by the mainstream media.

None of this removes the fact however, that absent the vaccuum, the 'insurmountable' hurdles can be dealt with without anything approaching societal meltdown as soon as the political will to do so makes itself apparent.

_________________
"It is difficult to be certain about anything except what you have seen with your own eyes, and consciously or unconsciously everyone writes as a partisan.”
― George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5480
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I see Brexit, Trump and now the Yellow Vests as manifestations of the same broad groundswell of anti-establishment mood that is making itself heard across the western world....with the establishment consisting of those who are part of the 'game' (what McWilliams might label 'insiders') regardless of their political/ideological persuasion. The fact that you acknowledge that the divisions cut across the traditional divide of left-right/conservative-liberal-socialist faultlines seems to actually underscore such an interpetation.

Governments execute policies. "Anti-establishment" is not a policy.

That's partly why Brexit is such a mess. Government is trying to implement a scream of rage.

_________________
"It's easy to confuse what is with what ought to be, especially when what is has worked out in your favour"
Tyrion Lannister


Top
 Profile  
 



Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5028 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1 ... 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 495, 496 ... 503  Next

    Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Central Bank

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Terra Incognita and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  

Follow, Retweet @dailypinster



Pyramid Built, Is Better Built! - Latest Property Discussions www.thepropertypin.com