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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:53 am 
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The Curious One wrote:
Madness of Crowds wrote:
€800 pcm of disposable spending after rent ...


€800 pcm is the absolute minimum people should be thinking about saving for long term pensions etc.


Sure, but the point I'm making is that on €80K, you can live comfortably, stuff your pension full and still save plenty from your post tax income. The point at which you can start saving out of post tax income, on top of generous pension provision comes at about €55K.

I have no idea how people on €35K manage.

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People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.


Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:19 am 
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Madness of Crowds wrote:
The Curious One wrote:
Madness of Crowds wrote:
€800 pcm of disposable spending after rent ...


€800 pcm is the absolute minimum people should be thinking about saving for long term pensions etc.


Sure, but the point I'm making is that on €80K, you can live comfortably, stuff your pension full and still save plenty from your post tax income. The point at which you can start saving out of post tax income, on top of generous pension provision comes at about €55K.

I have no idea how people on €35K manage.


You live in a council house (if you're lucky), you drive bangers on which you risk not paying tax, you don't go on holidays, you've no savings or pension. If you've a family you get family income support and other supports, the community welfar officer knows your name. It can be fairly precarious.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:47 am 
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Of Systemic Importance
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Low income worker? Ireland has smallest tax burden for low paid

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/per ... -1.3633502

Quote:
Ireland is one of the best places in the developed world for a low income worker to pay taxes, new figures show. Someone earning €18,000 a year pays an effective tax rate of less than 3 per cent in Ireland, according to the Irish Tax Institute. This compares with a rate of 26 per cent in Germany.

However, as income levels rise, Irish taxpayers quickly move up the table.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:14 am 
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Location: Dublin SE
TheJackal wrote:
Low income worker? Ireland has smallest tax burden for low paid

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/per ... -1.3633502

Quote:
Ireland is one of the best places in the developed world for a low income worker to pay taxes, new figures show. Someone earning €18,000 a year pays an effective tax rate of less than 3 per cent in Ireland, according to the Irish Tax Institute. This compares with a rate of 26 per cent in Germany.

However, as income levels rise, Irish taxpayers quickly move up the table.

I don't mind a progressive tax system but what I do mind is the absolute lack of recognition and outright denial that we have a very progressive tax system in Ireland but almost everyone and virtually all of the politicians especially the socialist.

Solidarity my arse, it's the usual crap, you earn more than me so you should pay more tax.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Madness of Crowds wrote:

I have no idea how people on €35K manage.


I have no idea either. Those in Dublin on that salary must have no quality of life whatsoever.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:47 am 
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bart wrote:
Madness of Crowds wrote:

I have no idea how people on €35K manage.


I have no idea either. Those in Dublin on that salary must have no quality of life whatsoever.

€35k = circa €2.4k after tax per month


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:06 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

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Location: SthDub
When I moved to Dublin in 98 I was on £9,500 and I drank and dined out a lot more than I do now!

€2.4k take home per month is a lot of money if your single or even if your married without kids say.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:44 am 
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FreeFallin wrote:
When I moved to Dublin in 98 I was on £9,500 and I drank and dined out a lot more than I do now!

€2.4k take home per month is a lot of money if your single or even if your married without kids say.


depends on your rent situation


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:47 am 
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FreeFallin wrote:
When I moved to Dublin in 98 I was on £9,500 and I drank and dined out a lot more than I do now!

€2.4k take home per month is a lot of money if your single or even if your married without kids say.

Back in 98, I was paying £1,200 pm to rent a 2 bed.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:50 am 
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Joined: Jan 31, 2009
Posts: 677
TheJackal wrote:
Low income worker? Ireland has smallest tax burden for low paid

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/per ... -1.3633502

Quote:
Ireland is one of the best places in the developed world for a low income worker to pay taxes, new figures show. Someone earning €18,000 a year pays an effective tax rate of less than 3 per cent in Ireland, according to the Irish Tax Institute. This compares with a rate of 26 per cent in Germany.

However, as income levels rise, Irish taxpayers quickly move up the table.

In reality, the tax rate is recognition that the cost of living is much higher here.

Do you remember benchmarking, that caused so much negative comment on the PS?
Well, it was a similar form of recognition that housing was so expensive that those who worked for the state couldn't afford housing.
And most of it, and more, went into the pockets of the developers, not into staff's pockets.

Of course those who had already bought a hoouse did very well out of it, thank you very much.
But even they were encouraged to build on huge extensions/upgrade to a better house/take equity out of their property; the last leading to one pin member's signature, IIRC, that it turned imaginary wealth into real debt.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:28 pm 
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cyrusir wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
When I moved to Dublin in 98 I was on £9,500 and I drank and dined out a lot more than I do now!

€2.4k take home per month is a lot of money if your single or even if your married without kids say.


depends on your rent situation


True. Back then I was paying about £250 per month to share a room with a mate (it was a big room!) in a 4 bed house with 6 people in total.
I'd move back in tomorrow :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Luan wrote:
bart wrote:
Madness of Crowds wrote:

I have no idea how people on €35K manage.


I have no idea either. Those in Dublin on that salary must have no quality of life whatsoever.

€35k = circa €2.4k after tax per month


That assumes no pension contribution.

A quick search of D10, 12, 22, 24, 15 &17 on Daft turns up a grand total of 11 1 beds and a room in a 2 bed. Discounting the latter at €800, we have one at €950 and ten in a range of €1100 to €1600. With a median at €1250, that leaves a disposable income of €1150 pcm after rent, to live in a relatively cheap bit of Dublin. If you're not quick enough to get one of the cheaper places, you could be left with just that €800 a month. Sure, it's survivable, but you're not making any provision for your retirement.

What this illustrates above all is how much your material comfort depends on your rent, particularly in Dublin. If you manage to rent the very cheapest single person home (€950 pcm) you can spend €800pcm to get a basic, but not unpleasant life, with some simple material comforts and have something like €700 pcm left to save, invest or splash out as you like. At the upper end of the rent range in the cheaper bits of town (let's face it, Drimnagh isn't exactly Mayfair or Malibu), you won't go hungry, but you have absolutely no safety margin and will be relying entirely on the state in your old age.

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People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.


Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:32 pm 
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So I checked my payslip breakdown

I currently receive 60.5% of my gross salary net into my hand.

This is after deducting PAYE (20.7%), USC (3.7%), Employee PRSI (4%), compulsory public servant Pension & Pension Levy (11.1%) payments

I got a 1% pay rise in Oct. Of this I received only 38.2% net. Yes, I paid 61.8% tax.

So while overall I'm receiving 3/5th of my gross salary, for any future increase I'll only get 2/5th!

Why even bother seeking a promotion? I'll only get paid for 2 of every 5 days at work!


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:18 pm 
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TheJackal wrote:
So I checked my payslip breakdown

I currently receive 60.5% of my gross salary net into my hand.

This is after deducting PAYE (20.7%), USC (3.7%), Employee PRSI (4%), compulsory public servant Pension & Pension Levy (11.1%) payments

I got a 1% pay rise in Oct. Of this I received only 38.2% net. Yes, I paid 61.8% tax.

So while overall I'm receiving 3/5th of my gross salary, for any future increase I'll only get 2/5th!

Why even bother seeking a promotion? I'll only get paid for 2 of every 5 days at work!

Ignoring any immediate benefit and assuming you are not subject to career averaging in your pension scheme - any increase in your base salary after the age of 40 is worth multiples of the increase in terms of pension benefits. A €5k pay rise could increase the value of your pension by circa €90k plus they give an additional €7.5k in lump sump at retirement.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Distribution & Tax Take
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:25 am 
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TheJackal wrote:
I got a 1% pay rise in Oct. Of this I received only 38.2% net. Yes, I paid 61.8% tax.

But as you noted, 11% was pension contributions which are not tax. The highest marginal rate of deductions (tax, USC, PRSI) is a little over the 50% mark, unless you're a self-employed high earner and pay the 3% USC surcharge.

TheJackal wrote:
Why even bother seeking a promotion? I'll only get paid for 2 of every 5 days at work!

Well, on the one hand you are a lot better off than your lesser paid compatriots. On the other hand, what I found as a high earner was that I couldn't aspire to the standard of living of my similarly high earning siblings in other EU countries. Higher taxes and much higher costs across the board meant you could be comfortable but never to the extent of other EU citizens. Generous incomes in Ireland are a bit of a smokescreen for a high drag economy with weirdly low productivity outside the multinational sector.

And that's even without the pot luck aspect of your accommodation situation. That could see you spend a million quid more or less than your neighbour over a lifetime, depending on your timing and the decisions you happened to make.

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