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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:56 pm 
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They bought at a huge discount?


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:10 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
They bought at a huge discount?


Definitely and part of it could be timing i.e. they haven't had the loans long enough to have exhausted the exhausting legal process before they gain possession!


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Epicurus wrote:
So how are Start, Cerberus, goldman sachs etc. getting paid and funding this if they can't repossess?

They cut deals with people to either sell or refinance.


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:37 pm 
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I presume the people who wisely strung the banks along for years by not engaging would now be wise to engage with these new debt owners?


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Luan wrote:
Epicurus wrote:
So how are Start, Cerberus, goldman sachs etc. getting paid and funding this if they can't repossess?

They cut deals with people to either sell or refinance.


I wonder who the refinance is with. Please God there are no cases where the remortgage could be with an Irish bank....but nothing would surprise at this stage. (Effectively onshoring the bad loans made by British/Belgian banks to put the Irish taxpayer on the hook).

Of course why not offer them new finance given their track record to date and their strong risk profile. Meanwhile credit is scarce for new first time suckers coming along, who will pay the highest mortgage rates in the eurozone, and be thankful for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:10 am 
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Bogman wrote:
I presume the people who wisely strung the banks along for years by not engaging would now be wise to engage with these new debt owners?

Eh... they will have no choice. Many of these debts are from people who threatened to lawyer up, mainly on spurious grounds, but grounds nevertheless that might cost the kind of money that lawyers can rack up very easily. The new owners just say - any legal issues, you sort that out with the bank after we've settled with you. 'Failure to engage' was the main criteria deciding which loans were sold on - the threat has been there for a long time and a few people (surprisingly few in my opinion) were smart enough to get out with very good deals - the ones that are left are going to get a pretty nasty shock - the deals struck will not be in any way to their advantage and if the politicians want to get involved they are welcome to do so but any softening of the blow will be with taxpayers money, end of story.


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:47 pm 
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I'm surprised at a letter like this slipping by the Sub-Editor. Fact checking seems to be a thing of the past in the MSM

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/lett ... -1.3598575
Quote:
Sir, – The latest bank bulk property sale looms with Ulster Bank set to sell 2,900 buy to let mortgages, and 2,300 other residential mortgages.

The bank states that is has to sell the loans as over 10 years they have arrears averaging €3,200 per annum on buy to lets and €6,100 per annum on the other loans.

Since the State propped up the banks when they needed it, where is the reciprocity for the State in our current housing crisis?

Ireland should be given the option to pay the arrears through a preferential rate loan, to secure 5,200 homes. Ulster Bank would then remove the debt from its books, the State gets 5,200 homes, and the occupants of those 5,200 homes, could pay rent to the State, and avoid becoming homeless.

Is the profit of this sale more important than the provision of 5,200 homes, and potentially many others in the months and years ahead?

Our State has paid a high price to the banks.

It is time the Government put in a clause to ensure it gets first option on the loans Ireland has already paid for. – Yours, etc,

JACKIE RYAN,

Dublin 14.


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:53 am 
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There is a problem with that letter.

The banks are offloading both the can't pay won't pay and the can't pay can't pay portions of their books.

If you put can't pay won't pay into a rental they will still can't pay won't pay ....a lot of these are parasites. The state needs to be very firm with the can't pay won't pay lot no matter what 'solution' is cooked up for them. They should not get priority for housing over ordinary decent local authority tenants who pay their rent.

If some carry on as they have done they should be out on their ears.

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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:26 am 
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Woman agrees to vacate €1m house after over 100 days in jail

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.3610314

EBS secured judgment in 2011 and she's still there...


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:18 am 
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TheJackal wrote:
Woman agrees to vacate €1m house after over 100 days in jail

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.3610314

EBS secured judgment in 2011 and she's still there...


Funny how the number given is €9.4m and €9.4m is the precise figure mentioned in this 2012 report on a well known ex Galway Fianna Fáil councillor named Josie Conneely. Josie has a long thread of his own HERE on the pin. :)

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/ret ... r-1.471556

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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:53 am 
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A new Central Bank publication has been released

Long-Term Mortgage Arrears in Ireland
https://centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/financial-stability-notes/no-7-long-term-mortgage-arrears-in-ireland-(o'malley).pdf?sfvrsn=5

Summary

Quote:
Long-Term Mortgage Arrears in Ireland, by Terry O’Malley, examines the characteristics of Irish residential mortgages in long-term arrears, meaning those mortgages that have accumulated at least two years’ worth of missed monthly payments. The mortgages examined in the research were taken out on the primary home of the borrower with one of the five main banks in Ireland. The loan sample dates from July 2015 to December 2017.

The key findings of the Financial Stability Note are:

-While the number of mortgages in long-term arrears continues to fall, the pace of reduction each quarter has begun to slow. For the first time, as many loans are exiting the portfolio of the main banks as are curing to lower arrears states.

-As at December 2017, the average amount of missed payments on these mortgages is €66,409. 10% of the loans have accumulated over €129,148 worth of missed payments and half have arrears of more than €52,544. The average loan has arrears outstanding of around 23% of what the property is estimated to be worth.

-Long-term arrears cases tend to have received a smaller number of modifications and are less likely to be currently modified. Loans that go through the Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process are twice as likely to end up in a lower arrears state six months later, compared to exit. This demonstrates the importance of borrower engagement with the arrears resolution process.


Irish Times have it here

‘Irish legal system’ to blame for high number of long-term mortgage arrears
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/eco ... -1.3620550

Quote:
The Irish legal system is to blame for the persistence of long-term mortgage arrears so long after the financial crisis, a new study published by the Central Bank has suggested.

The report said cases involving long-term arrears (those with missed payments stretching over two years), were rare internationally because repossession proceedings were usually shorter.

“The current legal system makes it difficult for banks to repossess collateral to resolve these loans, and so long-term mortgage arrears are the product of a long repossession process,” it said.


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:56 am 
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TheJackal wrote:
Woman agrees to vacate €1m house after over 100 days in jail

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.3610314

EBS secured judgment in 2011 and she's still there...


Why is the Irish Times too coy to name the lady?


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossessions Q2 2018 figures

(Note 1: BTL figures are discussed separately here http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic ... 10&t=50546)
(Note 2: Analysis of Restructured Mortgages can be found here http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic ... 19&t=63422)

Report Link
https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default ... f?sfvrsn=4

Arrears
Image

Repossessions
Image

Court Proceedings
Image

Restructures
Image

Where Green = highest since records began and Blue = Lowest since records began


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:56 am 
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Banks not restructuring loans realistically, say brokers

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/fin ... -1.3621650

Quote:
Banks are still failing to agree realistic restructuring plans for people with distressed mortgages, according to a leading industry group.

Brokers Ireland, which represents close to 1,300 mortgage and other insurance brokers, says that, in too many cases, lenders are merely “kicking the can down the road”.

One-third of 116,010 restructurings that have been agreed to date involve “arrears capitalisation”. That means missed payments of loan interest and capital, and any other costs incurred by the banks in handling arrears, are added to the balance of the loan.

“This is not a solution but a kicking of the can down the road mechanism, with the painful day delayed indefinitely,” says Rachel McGovern, director of financial services. “ The issue will eventually have to be dealt with.

“We have always maintained that it is erroneous to classify such mortgages as restructured,” she said.

The comments come as new Central Bank figures show the number of agreements with lenders to restructure distressed mortgages jumped during the second quarter after falling for a number of years.


Quote:
“That points to a lack of realism in the restructures,” she said. She argues that lenders need to face up to the “terrible dilemma” of “stubborn arrears” – those over 720 days, which account for 91 per cent of the €2.5 billion outstanding – with “real solutions”.


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 Post subject: Re: Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossess
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:09 pm 
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TheJackal wrote:
Banks not restructuring loans realistically, say brokers

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/fin ... -1.3621650

Quote:
Banks are still failing to agree realistic restructuring plans for people with distressed mortgages, according to a leading industry group.

Brokers Ireland, which represents close to 1,300 mortgage and other insurance brokers, says that, in too many cases, lenders are merely “kicking the can down the road”.

One-third of 116,010 restructurings that have been agreed to date involve “arrears capitalisation”. That means missed payments of loan interest and capital, and any other costs incurred by the banks in handling arrears, are added to the balance of the loan.

“This is not a solution but a kicking of the can down the road mechanism, with the painful day delayed indefinitely,” says Rachel McGovern, director of financial services. “ The issue will eventually have to be dealt with.

“We have always maintained that it is erroneous to classify such mortgages as restructured,” she said.

The comments come as new Central Bank figures show the number of agreements with lenders to restructure distressed mortgages jumped during the second quarter after falling for a number of years.


Quote:
“That points to a lack of realism in the restructures,” she said. She argues that lenders need to face up to the “terrible dilemma” of “stubborn arrears” – those over 720 days, which account for 91 per cent of the €2.5 billion outstanding – with “real solutions”.

I don't see why arrears capitalisation cannot be classed as sustainable. If someone is able to make current payments today, but missed payments at some point during a period of unemployment or reduced income, then there's no reason that can't be a sustainable solution. As long as the capitalisation doesn't involve the term extending beyond retirement age then there's no reason the loan can't be paid in full. Even if it does extend into retirement that could be resolved by downsizing and using the price difference to pay off the outstanding amount of the loan at that point. It sounds like these brokers are just pushing for write-offs to be the default solution even where they are not actually required.

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