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 Post subject: Re: Urban v Rural
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Sep 15, 2015
Posts: 1471
Bogman wrote:
When these discussions come up, I always wonder what I'm missing out by not living next to a hospital. Does the average people pop into them every week?


When you're young, no, it's not usually a big deal. For older people, though, distance to a hospital can have a big impact on quality of life, and potentially, in emergency circumstances, a big impact on lifespan.

Bogman wrote:
Also, do we really think that shops within 'walking distance' means you can shop without a car. Should I be able to carry 7 or 8 bags 500 metres without cutting the hands off myself?


If you're in walking distance of a supermarket, you can do smaller shops more frequently (on the way home from work, say).

Ultimately, a lot of this is public preference, of course, though. I wouldn't even consider living somewhere that I was dependent on a car for shopping etc; on the other hand some people like being a bit more isolated.


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 Post subject: Re: Urban v Rural
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:34 pm 
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conork wrote:
ps200306 wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:
A spurious point.

I was really questioning whether such dwellings should exist at all. Just because there are people prepared to live in them doesn't make them ok.

What's not ok about it? Not everyone wants to milk their own cows.

But most people would like to be able to swing their own cat.

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"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" – Niels Bohr


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 Post subject: Re: Urban v Rural
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Nov 6, 2006
Posts: 9012
Location: Hollywood
Worstpigeon wrote:
Bogman wrote:
When these discussions come up, I always wonder what I'm missing out by not living next to a hospital. Does the average people pop into them every week?


When you're young, no, it's not usually a big deal. For older people, though, distance to a hospital can have a big impact on quality of life, and potentially, in emergency circumstances, a big impact on lifespan.

Bogman wrote:
Also, do we really think that shops within 'walking distance' means you can shop without a car. Should I be able to carry 7 or 8 bags 500 metres without cutting the hands off myself?


If you're in walking distance of a supermarket, you can do smaller shops more frequently (on the way home from work, say).

Ultimately, a lot of this is public preference, of course, though. I wouldn't even consider living somewhere that I was dependent on a car for shopping etc; on the other hand some people like being a bit more isolated.


I lived within walking distance of a city centre for 2 years (one of the smaller cities in Australia). It was great for that stage of my life, free and single. I even saved money by being car less for a while. It meant I had to shop several times a week and took up far more time than if I had a vehicle. Why? Because you can only carry so many groceries.
I cant imagine that with a family. You`d be shopping every single night.

Then the impact on hobbys was real. I enjoy hiking, salsa dancing, kayaking and paddle boarding. Kayaking and paddle boarding were simply not possible because the cost involved in hiring them was too much. I already owned both but was willing to skip it for a while. Hiking anywhere except the city parks is a pain as public transport takes so long to get to anywhere. Salsa was the only thing I could do. But there are classes in the suburbs and in some towns too.

I also like going out into the outback and camping under the stars, 4x4ing on dirt tracks. Fishing it something i do occasionally.For a good fishing spot you need to be able to get away from people and have the capacity to carry your gear in your mode of transport. Obviously off roading is nigh on impossible with a vehicle and is to be expected.

I now own a 4x4 again but run it on lpg and would love nothing more than a hybrid or electric option or biofuel availability. I dont live near the city anymore but in the hills beside the city and hike every evening after work 9 months of the year (enough light here for it). The city is only good if you spend most of your time in coffee shops, museums, at the theater or going to the hospital or want a shorter commute.

The bottom line is its no good to me saving on a commute everyday to work if every evening & weekend i have to commute all/some of that saving to my hobbies anyway. This is before we even get into the issue of spending all your time walking back and forth to shops or how housing is small near cities compared with same price point in the suburbs. Those with any gear for a hobby simply ends up with no room to store things.


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 Post subject: Re: Urban v Rural
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Apr 4, 2010
Posts: 4733
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:
ps200306 wrote:
Be interesting to see how the bed in this one works when you're eighty instead of eighteen:


A spurious point.

Most people's housing needs change quite a bit over the course of their lifetime.

Most people living in inner Paris in their 20s are doing it because of their job.

Most people doing it in their 80s are doing it by choice, and because they have high income or wealth.


Do you think people should be moving every x number of years?


:idea:

If people lived in small cars, they could move as often as they liked. :D

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People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.


Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


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 Post subject: Re: Urban v Rural
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 281
Skippy 3 wrote:
irish_bob wrote:
i own a hobby farm and so live in rural ireland but were i not making some nice handy money from farm subsidies ( got the farm from an uncle ) , i would not dream of living here


It's very interesting to get a first-hand admission from a farmer that it is actually just a hobby which accidentally pays money. I wish you well btw, if I could make money out of my hobbies I would so too!

I suspect at least a half of Ireland's 100k farmers are in your situation by the way. It is quite a spectacular diversion of public resources that no one ever talks about.


oh i agree

about 80% of beef farmers would be out of business in the morning were subsidies removed


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 Post subject: Re: Urban v Rural
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:07 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 281
onioneater wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:
irish_bob wrote:
i own a hobby farm and so live in rural ireland but were i not making some nice handy money from farm subsidies ( got the farm from an uncle ) , i would not dream of living here


It's very interesting to get a first-hand admission from a farmer that it is actually just a hobby which accidentally pays money. I wish you well btw, if I could make money out of my hobbies I would so too!

I suspect at least a half of Ireland's 100k farmers are in your situation by the way. It is quite a spectacular diversion of public resources that no one ever talks about.


How is hobby farming a diversion of public resources? Most farmers wouldn't be "hobby-farming" and relying on other sources of family income if there was any money in farming average size farms of 50-100 acres. And these "hobby-farmers" are still producing food for domestic consumption and export, and keeping the countryside looking the way it does now, even if they are not making much money doing so.

In fact what is happening is that food is much cheaper as a percentage of the average industrial wage than it was even 40 years ago and only very large farming operations can scrape a reasonable wage out of it.

So we either have to move to industrial scale farms if you want all Irish farms to support families (not a desirable brand of farming) or you allow food prices to rise to allow 60 or 70 acre beef farms to make a living, as they were able to do up to the 1970's.



or you scrap subsidies , force inefficient small ( most are too small ) farmers to sell up, thus freeing up land and allowing sufficiently large farmers to scale up , subsidies dont have any effect on the price consumers pay for meat , milk etc , thats just IFA propoganda


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 Post subject: Re: Urban v Rural
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:10 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 281
obese_cat wrote:
I could easily have requested a site from my parents, and indeed my in-laws were encouraging me to do the same. No bloody way. We were fortunate enough to buy a spacious house, a fifteen minute walk from the city centre of Limerick. The freedom to walk to a café, bar, restaurant, or shop in less than fifteen minutes isn't something I can put a price on. Five minute drive to work, with schools, playgrounds, and other amenities all nearby.

Where I grew up, everything required a car journey. There was a dreary conservatism, everyone 'knew their place', standing out was discouraged. Moving to the city it's much easier to be yourself, and meet like-minded people.


aint that the truth , the clannishness in rural ireland is a sight to behold , unless the locals know or knew your " seed , breed and generation " , you are always treated as some sort of alien , rural ireland is not one jot friendlier than the city and its the complete opposite of a meritocracy , unless you are of the area , you dont get the same opportunities even when it comes to the local GAA team


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 Post subject: Re: Urban v Rural
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:30 pm 
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IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31893
Location: Tullamore
Eschatologist wrote:
Tfp2000 wrote:
where is the irony?

"streets ahead" ?

I think you'll find Tfp was referring to a sraid...

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"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


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 Post subject: Re: Urban v Rural
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:37 pm 
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IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31893
Location: Tullamore
Skippy 3 wrote:
ps200306 wrote:
Be interesting to see how the bed in this one works when you're eighty instead of eighteen:


A spurious point.

Most people's housing needs change quite a bit over the course of their lifetime.

Most people living in inner Paris in their 20s are doing it because of their job.

Most people doing it in their 80s are doing it by choice, and because they have high income or wealth.

Well, so only the rich get to live in the country and in the city? So you should go to the city to work through your life, then retire to a field somewhere (presuming that's not a euphemism...)? Most people's housing needs do change during their lifetimes, but if you charge them a fortune for a shoebox, what happens when they outgrow it? Condemned to the peripherique (Paris is no great shakes aside from the centre...)?

_________________
"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


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 Post subject: Re: Urban v Rural
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:29 am 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Dec 2, 2013
Posts: 2737
The real divide is between The Considerate v The Inconsiderate. If you watch an unworldly 85 year old try to precariously navigate our urban environment while young people rush by them haphazardly (and sometimes feral gangs harass/try to confuse them at parking meters). The same 85 year old gets visited by a stream of 'do you need any odd jobs done' chancers/fraudsters if they live in the isolated rural setting.

Aside - I will never stop laughing at planners (surely Ireland's most doctrinaire profession) try to convince us that Holland is the solution. The Dutch have been living in each other's ears for centuries, we haven't and we don't really want to.


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