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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Here in D12 we are enjoying the stinky fumes of it all!
Actually glad that it started raining a while ago to allay the stench and God knows what particulates and foul vapours.
I cannot help thinking that, between deaths in service of at least two workers and the few fires we have had in facilities, this recycling business is a lot more dangerous than anti-incinerator environmentalists may think!


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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:39 pm 
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Still the stink of burned plastic hanging around here today.
I had a quick spin into town at lunch and could notice whiffs of it in Camden Street and along SCR depending on the gusts. Mrs Myself cleaned off the clothes line before bravely chancing some washing after the showers - the cloth she used was filthy black and there is definitely a film of gunky dust on the windows that was not there Friday.
Neighbour has a relative in the Fire Service who informed he that, had we not had showers yesterday and last nights gales not been accompanied by rain, the place could have blazed for a week!


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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:57 pm 
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Serious question: Will Oxigen face any penalties for this?

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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:44 pm 
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Mantissa wrote:
Serious question: Will Oxigen face any penalties for this?


Depends on what caused the fire to break out. If it was arson, why should they, they're insurers will penalise them enough. If it was due to negligence, then maybe the breeched health & Safety directives (storage of the gases etc). Given the ferocity & duration or the fire, I'd say the chances of finding any evidence that you could prosecute off are slim.

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"Mr Kelly said Ireland’s “reputational capital” had been damaged by “chancers” such as ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Seán FitzPatrick, who had been abetted by “buffoons” such as former financial regulator Patrick Neary, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan and the Taoiseach." - Irish Times 13th Jan 2009

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." (Catherine Aird)


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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:50 pm 
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Maybe all dumps and recycling centres should be obliged to buy "Pollution Insurance" which would payout directly to the state in the event of such a heavily polluting fire.


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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:57 pm 
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TheEmigrant wrote:
Maybe all dumps and recycling centres should be obliged to buy "Pollution Insurance" which would payout directly to the state in the event of such a heavily polluting fire.


Then you'd have to consider what other types of pollution you should be protecting yourself from.

I've heard some very interesting stories about pollution from pharma plants in Cork; no nasty smoke, but plenty of long term damage to the environment !

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"Mr Kelly said Ireland’s “reputational capital” had been damaged by “chancers” such as ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Seán FitzPatrick, who had been abetted by “buffoons” such as former financial regulator Patrick Neary, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan and the Taoiseach." - Irish Times 13th Jan 2009

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." (Catherine Aird)


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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:03 pm 
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fishfoodie wrote:
TheEmigrant wrote:
Maybe all dumps and recycling centres should be obliged to buy "Pollution Insurance" which would payout directly to the state in the event of such a heavily polluting fire.


Then you'd have to consider what other types of pollution you should be protecting yourself from.

I've heard some very interesting stories about pollution from pharma plants in Cork; no nasty smoke, but plenty of long term damage to the environment !

It should only apply to the industries where the pollution is clear-cut. Anecdotal evidence of "interesting stories" can prove anything, but if a pharma plant went up in flames and started spewing damaging chemicals across the county then that should also be included.


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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:00 pm 
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fishfoodie wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
Serious question: Will Oxigen face any penalties for this?


Depends on what caused the fire to break out. If it was arson, why should they, they're insurers will penalise them enough. If it was due to negligence, then maybe the breeched health & Safety directives (storage of the gases etc). Given the ferocity & duration or the fire, I'd say the chances of finding any evidence that you could prosecute off are slim.


I meant them or their insurers, if it is their fault. Surely absent evidence of arson they should be responsible for things like fire service costs, disruption to traffic, pollution etc?

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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:30 pm 
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Mantissa wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
Serious question: Will Oxigen face any penalties for this?


Depends on what caused the fire to break out. If it was arson, why should they, they're insurers will penalise them enough. If it was due to negligence, then maybe the breeched health & Safety directives (storage of the gases etc). Given the ferocity & duration or the fire, I'd say the chances of finding any evidence that you could prosecute off are slim.


I meant them or their insurers, if it is their fault. Surely absent evidence of arson they should be responsible for things like fire service costs, disruption to traffic, pollution etc?


Fault is a difficult thing to prove, the presumption of innocence should surely apply here too ?

It might be more useful to start requiring places like this to be installing fire suppression systems, & increase the security of them to stop scumbags breaking in setting fire to them. Of course anything like this will jack up their costs & will get fed down to their customers & up goes the spiraling cost of living in this country. Just so some bored toe rag can get his jollys :evil:

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"Mr Kelly said Ireland’s “reputational capital” had been damaged by “chancers” such as ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Seán FitzPatrick, who had been abetted by “buffoons” such as former financial regulator Patrick Neary, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan and the Taoiseach." - Irish Times 13th Jan 2009

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." (Catherine Aird)


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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:34 pm 
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fishfoodie wrote:

Fault is a difficult thing to prove, the presumption of innocence should surely apply here too ?

I wouldn't think so, no. If you operate an intrinsically hazardous business, which is at risk of polluting the city, and you pollute the city, I would think there should be a presumption that it's your fault. I would imagine the public liability insurance for a site like this would be quite high due to these risks?

fishfoodie wrote:
It might be more useful to start requiring places like this to be installing fire suppression systems, & increase the security of them to stop scumbags breaking in setting fire to them. Of course anything like this will jack up their costs & will get fed down to their customers & up goes the spiraling cost of living in this country. Just so some bored toe rag can get his jollys :evil:


Insurance is far, far more effective at ensuring these things are done than laws or regulations are.

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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:39 pm 
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TheEmigrant wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
TheEmigrant wrote:
Maybe all dumps and recycling centres should be obliged to buy "Pollution Insurance" which would payout directly to the state in the event of such a heavily polluting fire.


Then you'd have to consider what other types of pollution you should be protecting yourself from.

I've heard some very interesting stories about pollution from pharma plants in Cork; no nasty smoke, but plenty of long term damage to the environment !

It should only apply to the industries where the pollution is clear-cut. Anecdotal evidence of "interesting stories" can prove anything, but if a pharma plant went up in flames and started spewing damaging chemicals across the county then that should also be included.


And what Industries have clear-cut links to pollution ?

Farming, mining, water treatment works, garages, abattoirs, anyone with any asbestos in their building ?

You'd be better off trying to compile a list of businesses that are unlikely to be pollutants .... except that CO2 is now supposed to be considered a pollutant, so I guess we're all polluting the planet just by breathing, & a certain amount of out gassing after currys. :nin

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"Mr Kelly said Ireland’s “reputational capital” had been damaged by “chancers” such as ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Seán FitzPatrick, who had been abetted by “buffoons” such as former financial regulator Patrick Neary, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan and the Taoiseach." - Irish Times 13th Jan 2009

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." (Catherine Aird)


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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:59 pm 
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Mantissa wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:

Fault is a difficult thing to prove, the presumption of innocence should surely apply here too ?

I wouldn't think so, no. If you operate an intrinsically hazardous business, which is at risk of polluting the city, and you pollute the city, I would think there should be a presumption that it's your fault. I would imagine the public liability insurance for a site like this would be quite high due to these risks?


So you don't believe in equality before the law then ?

As you point out, this company is already playing an increased cost, because of the business they're in, & the risks associated with storing large amounts of combustible materials on a site.

Quote:
fishfoodie wrote:
It might be more useful to start requiring places like this to be installing fire suppression systems, & increase the security of them to stop scumbags breaking in setting fire to them. Of course anything like this will jack up their costs & will get fed down to their customers & up goes the spiraling cost of living in this country. Just so some bored toe rag can get his jollys :evil:


Insurance is far, far more effective at ensuring these things are done than laws or regulations are.


Very true, & this, more than the changes in H&S law are, I believe, what have been behind the improvements in workplace safety.

The problem is that no-one wants a re-cycling premisses near them, just like no-one wants pylons, a landfill, an incinerator, a sewerage works or a halting site near their house; but they have to go somewhere, & if it's not going to be in Ballymount, it's going to be somewhere else, & it's neither fair, nor sensible to put it in Cavan, & then haul Dublin's rubbish all the way there, to sort & compact it, & then haul it back to Dublin to stick it on a ship.

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"Mr Kelly said Ireland’s “reputational capital” had been damaged by “chancers” such as ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Seán FitzPatrick, who had been abetted by “buffoons” such as former financial regulator Patrick Neary, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan and the Taoiseach." - Irish Times 13th Jan 2009

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." (Catherine Aird)


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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:12 pm 
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fishfoodie wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:

Fault is a difficult thing to prove, the presumption of innocence should surely apply here too ?

I wouldn't think so, no. If you operate an intrinsically hazardous business, which is at risk of polluting the city, and you pollute the city, I would think there should be a presumption that it's your fault. I would imagine the public liability insurance for a site like this would be quite high due to these risks?


So you don't believe in equality before the law then ?


Welllll... I do think that some activities are intrinsically risky. As an extreme example, operating a nuclear reactor for example. On a much smaller scale obviously, keeping lots of flammable material and hazardous waste in a small space is risky for lots of reasons (not singling out waste handling here; petrol stations are another good example). If you operate such a facility, and pollutants emanate from it, and you use public resources for a cleanup, I do think there should be a presumption that you should pay. The pollution came from your facility after all.

We already recognise this principle when we subject these sites to a higher level of regulation and licensing than other activities -- they're not treated the same as other businesses, nor should they be. They're treated in accordance with the risks they bring.

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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:48 pm 
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Another accident in the unluckiest industry in the country. :x
Thousands of tons of waste at a Derry recycling centre (in administration) gone up in smoke and expected to burn for several days ...

Image

Image

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34785263

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 89893.html

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/watch- ... -1-7059943

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 Post subject: Re: Burn, Baby, Burn
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:56 am 
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http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ne ... 87091.html

Singed Panda in Finglas

What an combustion-challenged industry?


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