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 Post subject: Re: The Land that was
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Posts: 5579
Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
dipole wrote:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/millionaire-developer-michael-ryan-found-not-guilty-of-making-corrupt-payments-to-fine-gael-councillor-29407659.html

well he got off anyhow.

I don't think Jury trials work in Ireland. They just won't send people to jail(general comment as opposed to comment specific to this case)


Let's get rid of jury trials so, aye?

Actually yes, I think Irish people for the most part have absolutely no morals and I wouldn't want to be an injured party or the relatives of an injured party as no justice will be dispensed. About the only place where juries still work is in sexual abuse cases. It appears to be the only place where taboos are still observed.

and the more abstracted the crime the more jurors have to search inwardly to come to an opinion with no moral framework to guide them in forming their opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: The Land that was
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:35 pm 
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Joined: May 18, 2009
Posts: 4180
dipole wrote:
Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
dipole wrote:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/millionaire-developer-michael-ryan-found-not-guilty-of-making-corrupt-payments-to-fine-gael-councillor-29407659.html

well he got off anyhow.

I don't think Jury trials work in Ireland. They just won't send people to jail(general comment as opposed to comment specific to this case)


Let's get rid of jury trials so, aye?

Actually yes, I think Irish people for the most part have absolutely no morals and I wouldn't want to be an injured party or the relatives of an injured party as no justice will be dispensed. About the only place where juries still work is in sexual abuse cases. It appears to be the only place where taboos are still observed.

and the more abstracted the crime the more jurors have to search inwardly to come to an opinion with no moral framework to guide them in forming their opinion.


So if someone accused you of being the party that caused the injury(faslely), you wouldn't want a judge and jury?

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"Abortion is the only event that modern liberals think too violent and obscene to portray on TV. This is not because they are squeamish or prudish. It is because if people knew what Abortion really looked like, it would destroy their pretence that it is a civilized answer to the problem of what to do about unwanted babies." ~ Peter Hitchen


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 Post subject: Re: The Land that was
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:44 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 5579
Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
dipole wrote:
Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
dipole wrote:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/millionaire-developer-michael-ryan-found-not-guilty-of-making-corrupt-payments-to-fine-gael-councillor-29407659.html

well he got off anyhow.

I don't think Jury trials work in Ireland. They just won't send people to jail(general comment as opposed to comment specific to this case)


Let's get rid of jury trials so, aye?

Actually yes, I think Irish people for the most part have absolutely no morals and I wouldn't want to be an injured party or the relatives of an injured party as no justice will be dispensed. About the only place where juries still work is in sexual abuse cases. It appears to be the only place where taboos are still observed.

and the more abstracted the crime the more jurors have to search inwardly to come to an opinion with no moral framework to guide them in forming their opinion.


So if someone accused you of being the party that caused the injury(faslely), you wouldn't want a judge and jury?

Of course I'd want a jury irrespective of whether I was accused falsely or not. Juries let people off. They try to convince themselves that the injured party doesn't need justice as they wrestle with the implications of finding someone guilty and ending up in jail. It doesn't help that the barrister for defence is telling them that the defendent is from a good family or fell in with the wrong crowd or fell on hard times and if they were just given the chance they'd somehow magically fix themselves.
Also some people believe that they don't need to use the States justice system as Karma will catch up with the wrongdoer in the long term.


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 Post subject: Re: The Land that was
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:40 pm 
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Posts: 4180
Quote:
A former Fine Gael councillor has lost his appeal against his conviction for receiving corrupt payments from a property developer.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0729/805667-fred-forsey/

Developer accused found not guilty.

Quote:
FORMER councillor Fred Forsey Jnr is expected to immediately launch proceedings to try to overturn his conviction for corruption, after the developer accused of paying him €80,000 in bribes was cleared of any wrongdoing.


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/co ... 08496.html

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 Post subject: Re: The Land that was
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:07 pm 
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Posts: 5913
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https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/c ... 48317.html
Quote:
In July, 2016, the Court of Appeal dismissed his appeal against his conviction.
Last year he was given permission to bring an appeal against his conviction before the Supreme Court on grounds his case raised matters of public importance or that it is in the interests of justice.
The appeal, heard on Tuesday, involves a challenge to the legality of a presumption of corruption against a holder of public office contained in Section 4 of the Prevention of Corruption Act.
The prosecution has relied on the presumption that the section imposes an obligation on the accused, in this case Mr Forsey, to disprove corruption.
The second point raised in the appeal is the scope of of a person's office or position in the context of of a charge of corruption.

In submissions on his behalf, Remy Farrell SC. point out his client has served his sentence, which was longest in the history of the state for corruption, and the conviction should be quashed.
Any issue of a retrial would be a matter for the DPP, counsel said.
Denis Vaughan Buckley SC, for the DPP, opposed the appeal, and argued that the conviction should remain undisturbed.
Counsel said the prosecution case was overwhelming and the evidence was such to enable the jury to comfortably come to the unanimous view beyond a reasonable doubt that Forsey had committed the offences.


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