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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:36 pm 
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We're being governed by morons.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Cool picture Hansel.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:54 am 
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Media reports of homelessness crisis 'damaging to Ireland's international reputation', claims Junior Housing Minister Damien English (FG)

Quote:
"Some of this narrative has seeped into international coverage of our housing system and is damaging to Ireland's international reputation, that our social response to this issue is being portrayed as dysfunctional," he said.


It is dysfunctional. The Housing policy of this government is attracting international media attention because it is so stupid and inept.

In other news Ireland has built 1093 social housing units in almost two years since January 2016. The Housing List currently stands at 120,598 households.

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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
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We're being governed by morons.


They get into the water while Rome burns. :|

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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:16 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
If ever evidence something was needed to deal with this crisis, one way or another, this case in the courts today!
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/c ... 61412.html
Quote:
DUBLIN City Council is paying €2,640 monthly for hotel accommodation three nights weekly for a separated homeless father and his three children rather than give him €1,500 housing assistance monthly to rent an apartment, the High Court has been told.
The man claims the Council is operating an unfair, irrational and discriminatory housing scheme in classifying separated fathers as “single” persons when allocating housing.
The scheme breaches his rights, including to equal treatment, under the Constitution and the European Convention on Human Rights Act, he claims.

Aged in his twenties, homeless and unemployed, the man has access to and custody of his three young children for three days and three nights weekly.
Because the Council classifies him as a “single” man for housing allocation, he can only get €990 monthly Housing Assistance Payment (HAP).

He says he has sourced an apartment for a monthly rent of €1,500 but, rather than recognising him as a separated father and increasing his HAP to meet that rent, the Council pays €660 weekly to fund hotel accommodation for himself and his children for three nights.
On the other four nights, he sources homeless accommodation for himself while the children stay with their mother, also homeless, in hotel accommodation also funded by the Council.

The Council has assessed his ex partner, based on her status as a separated mother, as entitled to up to €1,900 HAP, he says. This unfairly differentiated between him as the children's father and their mother as neither parent has the children on a full-time basis and instead share the custody and access, he alleges. ...
...In court documents, it was stated the man gets Jobseekers Allowance of €193 weekly, plus a €60 weekly access payment....
...he parents presented with their children to the Council’s homeless unit in early 2017 and were housed together in emergency hotel accommodation. The man and his partner separated in summer 2017 but remain on amicable terms and have agreed access arrangements between themselves, it was stated.

So a couple with 3 kids split up and decide to share custody. She gets up to 1,900 per month for accommodation. He's seeking 1,500 for his gaff whilst being unemployed in Dublin where there is practically full employment and is getting over 1,000 per month dole. And i'd be fairly sure she's on unemployment or single mothers payments etc.
This couple, if he wins his case (which I'm sure we're all paying for his legal team) could end up with accomm costs of 41k per year because they decided to go their sperate ways, lets say 25k or so in dole/single mothers allowance, childrens allowance of 5k and I'm sure there's more top-ups etc along the way. North of 70k per year.
This madness will eventually blow up...unless they do another pension raid on workers retirement funds to keep the charade afloat


This post sticks in my head.

For the last 10 years we've had people like Alan Kelly, Simon Coveney, Eoghan Murphy and almost all politicians grappling with the idea of social housing. But they all come, to a greater or even greater extent from a background of inherited wealth and expectation that they'll own their own home and their children will.

But there's a lot of people who ^ is not the background or the aspiration. They want a "forever home" but have no capacity to get it off their own or family's wealth and for many there are solid incentives to make their case as hopeless as they can put up with in the short term. More dependents = more need = higher ranking on the list. It's not a queue, it's a list. They don't want to live in a hotel for 20 years obviously. They also have no notion of emigrating. That traditional Irish solution to a lack of opportunity never ever comes up in the conversations that the needy have with the media. Or among themselves, presumably.

So you have this amazing situation of massive outlay for homeless and HAP. And the people tasked with solving it are on a different planet to those they're policy making for.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Location: London, innit
https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.irishti ... 3fmode=amp

Quote:

Sir, – Given that the housing crisis is central to Dublin’s ranking as almost the worst major European city for quality of life (“Dublin ranked as one of world’s most expensive cities”, News, November 16th), could I invite some of our local and national politicians to take a Luas journey from Connolly Station to Smithfield? As they travel through the centre of a city with some of the most expensive real estate in Europe, they will pass numerous dilapidated buildings.

After taking this depressing tram ride (and they would see much the same, and far worse, throughout the north inner city), could any of those officials then point to another European capital where, seconds from the most notable landmarks, entire streets and blocks stand in abject, empty disrepair?

Dublin’s housing and planning problems are not unique. Other countries also grant strong protections to private property that can make land management complicated.

What may be unique is that our politicians seem to feel no sense of shame that so many parts of the city they represent are in such a state and that decades can pass before even one building is repaired or brought into use. While no one would claim that the issues are straightforward, can anyone point to an intelligent and imaginative plan – one that will be pursued with urgency – to do something about derelict Dublin? – Yours, etc,

BILL CALLAGHAN,

Clontarf, Dublin 3.


Pinster BillCall still writing decent letters despite having bought IIRC, fair play Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Posts: 981
GameBlame wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
If ever evidence something was needed to deal with this crisis, one way or another, this case in the courts today!
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/c ... 61412.html
Quote:
DUBLIN City Council is paying €2,640 monthly for hotel accommodation three nights weekly for a separated homeless father and his three children rather than give him €1,500 housing assistance monthly to rent an apartment, the High Court has been told.
The man claims the Council is operating an unfair, irrational and discriminatory housing scheme in classifying separated fathers as “single” persons when allocating housing.
The scheme breaches his rights, including to equal treatment, under the Constitution and the European Convention on Human Rights Act, he claims.

Aged in his twenties, homeless and unemployed, the man has access to and custody of his three young children for three days and three nights weekly.
Because the Council classifies him as a “single” man for housing allocation, he can only get €990 monthly Housing Assistance Payment (HAP).

He says he has sourced an apartment for a monthly rent of €1,500 but, rather than recognising him as a separated father and increasing his HAP to meet that rent, the Council pays €660 weekly to fund hotel accommodation for himself and his children for three nights.
On the other four nights, he sources homeless accommodation for himself while the children stay with their mother, also homeless, in hotel accommodation also funded by the Council.

The Council has assessed his ex partner, based on her status as a separated mother, as entitled to up to €1,900 HAP, he says. This unfairly differentiated between him as the children's father and their mother as neither parent has the children on a full-time basis and instead share the custody and access, he alleges. ...
...In court documents, it was stated the man gets Jobseekers Allowance of €193 weekly, plus a €60 weekly access payment....
...he parents presented with their children to the Council’s homeless unit in early 2017 and were housed together in emergency hotel accommodation. The man and his partner separated in summer 2017 but remain on amicable terms and have agreed access arrangements between themselves, it was stated.

So a couple with 3 kids split up and decide to share custody. She gets up to 1,900 per month for accommodation. He's seeking 1,500 for his gaff whilst being unemployed in Dublin where there is practically full employment and is getting over 1,000 per month dole. And i'd be fairly sure she's on unemployment or single mothers payments etc.
This couple, if he wins his case (which I'm sure we're all paying for his legal team) could end up with accomm costs of 41k per year because they decided to go their sperate ways, lets say 25k or so in dole/single mothers allowance, childrens allowance of 5k and I'm sure there's more top-ups etc along the way. North of 70k per year.
This madness will eventually blow up...unless they do another pension raid on workers retirement funds to keep the charade afloat


This post sticks in my head.

For the last 10 years we've had people like Alan Kelly, Simon Coveney, Eoghan Murphy and almost all politicians grappling with the idea of social housing. But they all come, to a greater or even greater extent from a background of inherited wealth and expectation that they'll own their own home and their children will.

But there's a lot of people who ^ is not the background or the aspiration. They want a "forever home" but have no capacity to get it off their own or family's wealth and for many there are solid incentives to make their case as hopeless as they can put up with in the short term. More dependents = more need = higher ranking on the list. It's not a queue, it's a list. They don't want to live in a hotel for 20 years obviously. They also have no notion of emigrating. That traditional Irish solution to a lack of opportunity never ever comes up in the conversations that the needy have with the media. Or among themselves, presumably.

So you have this amazing situation of massive outlay for homeless and HAP. And the people tasked with solving it are on a different planet to those they're policy making for.


The problem is the portrayal of social housing as being free houses for the idle poor. Social housing is normally built (and in this country was built) as affordable housing for the working poor in cases where the private sector cannot or will not provide it. The problem here, and the UK, was that social housing was sold off and no more was built. Social housing acts as a buffer on house prices by providing a viable alternative - you could be cynical and say that social housing was sold off exactly to have this effect - I wonder if anyone has studied this area - Ronanl? It does seem interesting that the UK and Ireland are the countries that did this the most and seem to have the same rampant house price inflation.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:32 pm 
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The dogma is that "we must build more social housing". But that's yesterday's solution to today's problem. It's 1970s thinking and before. It ignores the mass influx of immigrants to the country. The social housing projects of the 1940s were built to clear slums. The slum dwellers now are migrants. Many of the "working poor" are non nationals. Many of the non working homeless are citizens.

In the context of the State committing itself to pay for the private rental accommodation costs of so many people living in private estates and buildings, why also not rent local authority housing to anyone who will pay the highest price ? The problem is not enough housing, not really not enough council housing. If you have two vacant council properties, why not rent one to a working non-national family rather than two domestic unemployed families ?


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:56 pm 
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Agree with the above...

The problem is - too much of so-called Social Housing is in fact "Anti-Social" housing. Which is why I implore friends and relatives not to buy anywhere near new social housing if they can avoid it. Social Housing these days largely means Social Welfare housing and there is just way too much bad behavior from too many tenants. Not worth the risk in buying when you have to put up with the kind of thing below as reported today.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/c ... 57884.html
A 23-year-old pregnant woman, who made life intolerable for her neighbours due to her antisocial lifestyle, has lost her local authority home on the direction of a judge.

Judge Jacqueline Linnane said the behaviour of Zoe Byrne, Pearse Street, Sallynoggin, Co Dublin, was “nothing short of a disgrace” and granted Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council a possession order that will leave Byrne homeless this Christmas.

She said in the Circuit Civil Court that Byrne was only 10 days in her attractive, modern apartment at No 50 Pearse Street when the first complaint of neighbours started to arrive at the County Council offices.

Judge Linnane said Byrne had made herself homeless by her behaviour with all-night-long parties where party-goers kept up a constant din of shouting, jumping and loud music which meant the neighbours could not sleep.

She said two of Byrne’s neighbours, one of whom suffered from MS and had four children to look after, had told the court life was intolerable following Byrne’s arrival.

Byrne had been taken before the District Court where the judge, despite having heard a litany of anti-social activities, had given her a last chance following an undertaking to the court that she would change her ways.

Liam O’Donovan, a manager in the council’s housing department, said Byrne had not lived up to her word and had received visits and written warnings about her behaviour. On one occasion armed gardaí had to be called to Byrne’s home to remove a man who had no right to be there.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:15 am 
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Coles2 wrote:
Media reports of homelessness crisis 'damaging to Ireland's international reputation', claims Junior Housing Minister Damien English (FG)

Quote:
"Some of this narrative has seeped into international coverage of our housing system and is damaging to Ireland's international reputation, that our social response to this issue is being portrayed as dysfunctional," he said.


It is dysfunctional. The Housing policy of this government is attracting international media attention because it is so stupid and inept.

In other news Ireland has built 1093 social housing units in almost two years since January 2016. The Housing List currently stands at 120,598 households.

Image


Is that drop clearly evident from 2011 onwards mainly due to a lack of Part V coming on line due to the lack of completions in the private sector?

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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Minister for Housing uses the term 'forever home'
Murphy said he knows new homes are the answer to this problem, but this will take time, and until then, he said the State will treat families “with the utmost care” until it can provide them with a forever home.

or maybe it's TheJournal taking liberty?


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Ideas often held in the same mind:

1. Council home as forever home is moral hazard/bad for society.
2. Long term social housing produces pleasant neighbourhoods (corollary of "don't live near new social housing").
3. Social housing lottery is bad, kill it with fire.
4. Inherited wealth lottery is OK, nothing to see here.

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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:53 pm 
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I know "living above the shop" has been discussed before but I was in Dun Laoghaire yesterday and pretty much every building on the Main Street seemed to have a vacant first floor. I'm not sure how many of these are still directly accessible from the street, but it's a serious waste of potentially usable space.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:34 pm 
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shweeney wrote:
I know "living above the shop" has been discussed before but I was in Dun Laoghaire yesterday and pretty much every building on the Main Street seemed to have a vacant first floor...

Housing Agency estimates may be 5,000 - 6,000 units above shops in Dublin alone.
Govt to fast-track conversion of empty retail units to housing under new legislation


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:40 pm 
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temene wrote:
shweeney wrote:
I know "living above the shop" has been discussed before but I was in Dun Laoghaire yesterday and pretty much every building on the Main Street seemed to have a vacant first floor...

Housing Agency estimates may be 5,000 - 6,000 units above shops in Dublin alone.
Govt to fast-track conversion of empty retail units to housing under new legislation

If only there were people working in the shops who would value a place to live that was close to where they worked....

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