Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 919 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 ... 62  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:27 pm 
Offline
Neo Landlord

Joined: Mar 3, 2009
Posts: 214
Eschatologist wrote:
temene wrote:
shweeney wrote:
I know "living above the shop" has been discussed before but I was in Dun Laoghaire yesterday and pretty much every building on the Main Street seemed to have a vacant first floor...

Housing Agency estimates may be 5,000 - 6,000 units above shops in Dublin alone.
Govt to fast-track conversion of empty retail units to housing under new legislation

If only there were people working in the shops who would value a place to live that was close to where they worked....


"you're fired! Also - get out of the flat by the end of the week"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:24 pm 
Offline
Nationalised

Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Posts: 8718
Location: London, innit
shweeney wrote:
I know "living above the shop" has been discussed before but I was in Dun Laoghaire yesterday and pretty much every building on the Main Street seemed to have a vacant first floor. I'm not sure how many of these are still directly accessible from the street, but it's a serious waste of potentially usable space.



especially with Estate Agents offices which seem to proliferate in certain areas - other types might have stocks etc upstairs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:50 am 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: May 3, 2007
Posts: 12017
I knew someone who flooded his estate agent landlords below. (the plumbing was basically Victorian upstairs)

He walked in to find one of the Landlord EAs up to his ankle in water and the Landord EA glared at him and said.

"A Swimming Pool!. In Merrion Square. Why the Fuck didn't I think of This?"

_________________
SEO Ireland. SEO Dublin.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:37 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 3529
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
Taxpayers will spend €3bn on rent subsidies over next five years
The combined cost of RS, RAS, HAP, is expected to be in the region of €535m this year.
Assuming the Government’s own projections..this will rise to €714m pa in 2021.


Is that a good outcome? all those taxeuros going to landlords rather than investing it in State housing infrastructure
This ensures incredible problems for the rental sector for the next few years.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:44 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5246
temene wrote:
Taxpayers will spend €3bn on rent subsidies over next five years
The combined cost of RS, RAS, HAP, is expected to be in the region of €535m this year.
Assuming the Government’s own projections..this will rise to €714m pa in 2021.


Is that a good outcome? all those taxeuros going to landlords rather than investing it in State housing infrastructure
This ensures incredible problems for the rental sector for the next few years.

I make that about 700/mo per HAP recipient. But the govt presumably gets up to half of that back in income taxes (assuming private landlords).

So lets call it 5k/year/recipient. At that rate a 250k property would take 50 years to achieve ROI w.r.t HAP excluding things like interest costs.

I'm sure my maths could be improved but it's easy to see why the govt finds it easier to kick the can down the road, at least if you ignore all the other external costs.

_________________
"It's easy to confuse what is with what ought to be, especially when what is has worked out in your favour"
Tyrion Lannister


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:17 pm 
Offline
Back Home with Mammy

Joined: Oct 7, 2017
Posts: 63
I thought that landlords who were willing to accept HAP were offered certain Tax exemptions?
So not only do the government pay out over 8.5k per year but they lose out on revenue they could claim from the landlord if the property was let out privately.
All in all it may be costing the taxpayer about 12k (including lost tax revenue and the cost of administrating HAP) a year per household. The government could easily build for an average 150k per unit (this is nationwide not just in Dublin) so this means about 12 years worth of this expenditure could actually pay to build a property for each of these tenants.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:36 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 2074
Eschatologist wrote:
So lets call it 5k/year/recipient. At that rate a 250k property would take 50 years to achieve ROI w.r.t HAP excluding things like interest costs.

I'm sure my maths could be improved but it's easy to see why the govt finds it easier to kick the can down the road, at least if you ignore all the other external costs.


Exactly.

HAP/RAS/RS is very good value for the taxpayer as most dwellings (particularly outside Dublin) are still well below the cost of new build.

Of course it is just can kicking because it doesn't do anything about the underlying cost of new build (private or social) being higher than it needs to be.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:28 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 2074
An Post and the OSI put out a semi-annual report on the vacancy rate of the housing stock. It is now put at 5% (just 0.9% in Dublin), considerably lower than the Census-derived figure of 12% that causes much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I dug into the report and found this useful stuff on the differences between the An Post/OSI measure and that of the CSO in the Census:

TLDR version, there is very little vacant stock which is usable in high-demand areas like Dublin:

Quote:
Vacant Units
The composition of housing stock provides an estimate of the stock of
vacant units and therefore of the stock of units with potential for occupation.
For example, a vacant stock of 100,000 dwellings has the potential to
accommodate 275,000 persons, based on the average household size of 2.75
persons per household, reported in the 2016 Census.

The main source of data on vacant units is the Census of Population, which
measures the vacant residential stock every five years. GeoDirectory provides
an estimate of the stock of vacant units at any point in time, with the figures
reported every six months in this publication.

The figures reported on the number of vacant units are based on the following
definitions used by GeoDirectory and the CSO. The GeoDirectory database
includes an address as vacant if it falls under one of the following:
• The dwelling is vacant and ready to be inhabited, based on whether the property
does or does not receive post;
• The dwelling is vacant and requires a small amount of cosmetic/repair work to
make it habitable;
• The dwelling is not a holiday home.

The 2016 Census enumerators, in identifying vacant dwellings, were instructed
to look for signs that the dwelling was not occupied e.g. no furniture, no cars
outside, junk mail accumulating, overgrown garden etc., and to find out from
neighbours whether it was vacant or not. It was not sufficient to classify a
dwelling as vacant after one or two visits. Similar precautions were also taken
before classifying a dwelling as a holiday home.

Based on the above definitions, GeoDirectory report a vacant stock of 96,243
address points or units in June 2017, while the 2016 Census reported a
vacant stock of 183,312 address points or units, as of April 2016. Thus the
GeoDirectory figure is around half the Census figure, which is a substantial
difference, of the order of 87,000 dwellings. The average vacancy rate across
the State is 4.9 per cent, according to GeoDirectory (Figure 10), compared with
12.3 per cent, according to the Census of Population.

Drilling down further, however, it is possible to explain some of this substantial
difference. The CSO has provided some data on the reasons why vacant dwellings
were vacant at the time of the Census of Population for a small sample of vacant
buildings (i.e. around 57,000 dwellings or close to one-third of the total). For this
one-third of vacant dwellings, they include dwellings classified as for sale (10,948
dwellings), for rent (10,350), owner in nursing home (4,165), renovation work
underway (3,678), owner in hospital (1,469), and owner with relatives (847).

Some of these categories could be construed as dwellings which might not normally
be classified as vacant in the context of vacant long term, but would represent more
of a transition or temporary vacancy rate, i.e. while properties are waiting to be sold
or rented out.
In the aggregate they represent a total of around 31,500 properties out
of the 57,000, or 55 per cent, implying that 25,500 of this total would be deemed to
be vacant. As these explanations were only provided for one-third of vacant dwellings,
(if it is assumed that 55 per cent of the remaining two-thirds were similarly classified,
leaving 45 per cent as representing the true vacant total) this would reduce the CSO
figure for the number of vacant dwellings considerably to around 83,000, which would
be closer to the GeoDirectory figure of 96,243.
The difference may also reflect a timing issue, given that the data for th
e Census was
collected in April 2016, while the GeoDirectory measure is at June 2017.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:57 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 3529
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
FiannaFail proposal to become law. NCT-style inspection test for rental properties every three years in order for a landlord to rent.
Front page of today's Times
Local authorities (!!) will police the opt-in scheme.
aka nothing will happen


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:15 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 11764
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
An interesting political opinion poll with a housing insight.

Image
Image
FG, FF, SF, Lab, Sol PBP, Greens, Soc Dems, Indos.
Shame the Soc Dems aren't getting a bit more traction. More discussion...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:29 pm 
Offline
Property Magnate

Joined: Mar 30, 2016
Posts: 661
Coles2 wrote:
An interesting political opinion poll with a housing insight.

Image
Image
FG, FF, SF, Lab, Sol PBP, Greens, Soc Dems, Indos.
Shame the Soc Dems aren't getting a bit more traction. More discussion...


nothing surprising there


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:09 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5246
cyrusir wrote:
nothing surprising there

It's surprising to me that FG have the greatest relative lead over FF (double) amongst those in council housing.

Maybe they get up early in the morning.

_________________
"It's easy to confuse what is with what ought to be, especially when what is has worked out in your favour"
Tyrion Lannister


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:38 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 11764
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
Eschatologist wrote:
cyrusir wrote:
nothing surprising there

It's surprising to me that FG have the greatest relative lead over FF (double) amongst those in council housing.

Maybe they get up early in the morning.
Telephone surveys tend to be a bit biased towards an older demographic. Maybe there's an element of 'keeping up appearances' too?

Image
"Of course I'm voting 'fine gale'!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 5955
Location: SthDub
THis was covered on Morning Ireland also, just after the sports news at 8.30am

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/01 ... erholding/
Quote:
There has been a significant increase in the number of people defying eviction notices over the past year.
New figures show an increase of almost 25% in referrals for 'overholding' with the Residential Tenancies Board.
If a tenant fails to leave a property after receiving a notice of termination a landlord can complain to the RTB.
In 2016 there were 553 such cases.
To the end of November last year the RTB had received 688 referrals, representing an increase of almost 25%....
...A number of TDs have advised constituents to ignore termination notices if there is nowhere else to go.
Dun Laoghaire TD Richard Boyd Barret said tenants are left with no option.
"In almost all cases tenants don't want to overhold and stay on but they can't find anywhere else. If the choice is emergency accommodation or homelessness, what choice do people have?
"For huge numbers of people they can find nowhere and in that situation I would strongly advise them to stay where they are for as long as they can."


MI interviewed 1 woman (3 kids) who got a 4 month notice to terminate the lease in Tyrellstown as the LL wanted to sell. 18 months later, she's still there and refuses to go until the Council find her an alternative place to live that isn't a hotel.
I didn't read in the IT about the RTB running to the High Court for an injunction on this one as quickly as they did for those tenants in Mountjoy Sq before xmas!

Some Landlords are leaving properties empty apparently rather than lease them for a short period of time if their plan is to sell in the medium term. It's too risky to get tenants in.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:32 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 11764
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
That's quite a sound strategy that saves the State an absolute fortune. No point in the woman making herself and her children homeless just because the landlord wants to evict her. As long as she keeps paying the rent and keeps to the spirit of the lease agreement I don't really see the problem. Perhaps if the landlord wants to evict her he should find her an alternative suitable place for her and the children to live?

And yes, I know! Property right trump everything! I KNOW. It's awful for the poor landlord, but it's better than having more homeless children, isn't it?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 919 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 ... 62  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  

Click for Latest Posts LATEST POSTS Click for Forum List FORUMS   

Follow, Retweet @dailypinster

  

Pyramid Built, Is Better Built!