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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
The public service will soon have to grapple with the fact that:

1) it pays the same countrywide, even though housing costs vary more than they ever have
2) starting salaries are generally quite good, but very slow to increase

This leaves most public service workers in the home-buying demographic (30-35) priced out of most of Dublin.

For the rest of the country, it is generally quite a good living.


Prove it!

Firstly, most "public servants" in Dublin ate CS not PS.
This means they are on CS grades not PS grades.
Secondly, take a look at Dublin area pay rates for government employees and you will see that they are signoficantly higher than private sector wages as they are hired to higher grades than public servants in the rest of the country.

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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Not so. civil service is of course a subset of public service.

The majority of public servants in Dublin are in fact not civil servants but hospital administrators, fire staff, teachers, guards, etc.

These are all working on national pay scales but facing Dublin housing costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:16 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
Colm McCarthy writes in the Sunday Indo with his usual incisiveness, and a damning conclusion:


So should all land be zoned for development within 25 km of the city centre, as McCarthy suggests? Sounds reasonable to me unless there’s some compelling reason not to in a particukar area.

For some reason McCarthy is fond of American analogies when describing Leinster geography. In that piece ‘the plains of North Dakota’ and ‘rolling prairies’ both get a look in.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:07 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:

These are all working on national pay scales but facing Dublin housing costs.


Yes, Dublin and Galway were both relatively expensive outliers as late as maybe 1995 but Dublin went nuts thereafter, a Dublin Weighting should be brought in.

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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:09 am 
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2Pack wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:

These are all working on national pay scales but facing Dublin housing costs.


Yes, Dublin and Galway were both relatively expensive outliers as late as maybe 1995 but Dublin went nuts thereafter, a Dublin Weighting should be brought in.

Tesco did that and their staff down the country (Offaly?) Went on strike.

But yeah it makes sense. Provided unions recognise that e.g. a teacher's salary down the country is actually pretty decent


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:44 am 
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2Pack wrote:
Provided unions recognise that e.g. a teacher's salary down the country is actually pretty decent


:D no chance

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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:22 am 
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Ardillaun wrote:

So should all land be zoned for development within 25 km of the city centre, as McCarthy suggests? Sounds reasonable to me unless there’s some compelling reason not to in a particukar area.



It's a bit glib to just say: 'zone land'. All you will get then is houses and nothing else.

Local authorities should be given a development mandate: the right to CPO land at agricultural value, put in roads and services, parcel it densely, and sell plots to whoever wants to build.

This is how it works in better-run parts of Europe, which have notably cheaper housing costs than Dublin does.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:36 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
Local authorities should be given a development mandate: the right to CPO land at agricultural value, put in roads and services, parcel it densely, and sell plots to whoever wants to build.

This is how it works in better-run parts of Europe, which have notably cheaper housing costs than Dublin does.


Which would cause some big write downs on the value of land banks still held by the Banks, or at this stage those that bought the land banks off the banks. No politician would last too long making that suggestion.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:09 pm 
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I don't think land banks are a big part of banks' portfolios anymore, either explicitly or via lending secured on land.

Just checked. Lending for residential property development is only €2.3bn in March 2018. It was basically ten times that ten years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
I don't think land banks are a big part of banks' portfolios anymore, either explicitly or via lending secured on land.

Just checked. Lending for residential property development is only €2.3bn in March 2018. It was basically ten times that ten years ago.

Sure. But somebody has it. And they might not 'accept' deep losses. :nin


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:22 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
Ardillaun wrote:

So should all land be zoned for development within 25 km of the city centre, as McCarthy suggests? Sounds reasonable to me unless there’s some compelling reason not to in a particukar area.



It's a bit glib to just say: 'zone land'. All you will get then is houses and nothing else.

Local authorities should be given a development mandate: the right to CPO land at agricultural value, put in roads and services, parcel it densely, and sell plots to whoever wants to build.



Actually, McCarthy did address servicing land and planning permission as well in his article. Zoning would obviously be just one element.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:56 am 
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Karl Deeter’s article in SBP today defending developers

“If anybody want to have a moan about developers, the first questions I ask the are: What have you done about housing? What risks have you take? And have you individually ever done a single thing other than moan or march to make a difference to housing. Nine times out of ten, the silence in reply is deafening”

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:03 pm 
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A more reasonable question is "have you ever objected to a housing development" or better still "have you written in support of a housing development that your selfish wanker neighbors objected to because of unfounded fears about overdevelopment or even valuations"


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:47 am 
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Twenty years ago my parents and the residents' association spent vast amounts of effort objecting to a new development over the back wall. It was infill development in an already-serviced area so, on objective criteria, made a lot of sense.

I think they got the density reduced a bit.

Now it's built. Mainly blocked by trees. There is zero noise or disturbance of any sort. In fact a friend of mine even lives in there now.


You'd wonder why so much airtime is given over to people who simply want to stop the next generation from buying a place to live.


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 Post subject: Re: Grappling with the housing crisis: Fresh approaches need
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:54 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
You'd wonder why so much airtime is given over to people who simply want to stop the next generation from buying a place to live.

Because the majority of adults (66%) own/mortgage their home and don't want to see the value of their primary investment fall.
Hence object to everything that may affect same.


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