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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
All those developments are in the range of 10-25 units each. That'll keep the price up alright, particularly design and professional fees, margin, etc.. We need green field sites of 1000+ units.

But then you are likely to run into issues with ghettoisation, right - unless you try to keep some balance between social and private housing?


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:32 pm 
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A builder who could build 1000 houses in one go in one site could get massive savings due to the scale.

But there isn't any builder in the country who builds at that scale.

There's zero chance of a smaller builder getting such a contract. The tender would require they've already completed similar projects and have a couple hundred million in financing.

In reality for 1000 units in Ireland you're looking at a phased development and the costs go up.

Any builder with sense tendering for a council job would be charging a premium as they'd expect delays due to lack of decisions, more hassle, more rework, inability to get the customer to swallow unexpected costs. Having just one customer isn't necessarily a good thing for a builder as they can't do their usual bullying.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:59 pm 
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sorehead wrote:
A builder who could build 1000 houses in one go in one site could get massive savings due to the scale.

But there isn't any builder in the country who builds at that scale.

We are not living on Mars. If Irish, Spanish or even Chinese can build in Poland.. why not here?

oh ye I forgot that most of land here is kept by few at little or no cost..

_________________
Why it was so windy there?... I am out.

For future reference, a 'soft landing' theorem:
06/2007: Central Bank predicts soft landing for housing
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 96858.html
It's all grand


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:37 pm 
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Any non-Irish company will have to pay Irish pay rates. If they bring in workers that will be expensive as they'd have transport and housing costs on top. Also they'll have to deal with Irish trade unions who won't be pleased. Remember GAMA?

If they tender on the project based on hiring local labour - and that will be hundreds if not thousands of staff, then they're being reckless to tie themselves up in a contract to build cheap homes, because those staff are already in demand and will be expensive.

In reality if the government were to seriously go about building a 1000 unit non-phased development it's likely they'd need to pay a premium over a more typically sized Irish development.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:12 am 
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I am sure there are some economies of scale in house building but I am not that convinced they are huge. Please point me to evidence here folks.

Perhaps on the land acquisition and planning side? Planning a development seems to account for a big share of cost these days and a 50-unit development is probably not much more complicated or time-consuming than a 20-unit one.

I guess labourers get familiar with identical semi-Ds and the 20th is faster than the first, but by how much? Concrete still takes as long to pour and laying blocks is still laying blocks.

Also, the building supplies market is very concentrated in Ireland. Coming with a bulk purchase to a supplier who has very little effective competition will not see you walking away with much lower unit prices.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:56 pm 
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sorehead wrote:
Any non-Irish company will have to pay Irish pay rates. If they bring in workers that will be expensive as they'd have transport and housing costs on top. Also they'll have to deal with Irish trade unions who won't be pleased. Remember GAMA?

If they tender on the project based on hiring local labour - and that will be hundreds if not thousands of staff, then they're being reckless to tie themselves up in a contract to build cheap homes, because those staff are already in demand and will be expensive.

In reality if the government were to seriously go about building a 1000 unit non-phased development it's likely they'd need to pay a premium over a more typically sized Irish development.

I am just tired of same old news everywhere. Media, people, govt.. everybody is fluffing, but nothing is happening.

There are no valid plans for future at all.

_________________
Why it was so windy there?... I am out.

For future reference, a 'soft landing' theorem:
06/2007: Central Bank predicts soft landing for housing
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 96858.html
It's all grand


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Location: Cathair na dTreabh
Ten 3 bed houses in Ballinasloe costs €1.7m
http://connachttribune.ie/residents-cam ... using-300/


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:54 pm 
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temene wrote:
Ten 3 bed houses in Ballinasloe costs €1.7m
http://connachttribune.ie/residents-cam ... using-300/


I wonder how much of that goes on having to fight the sort of 'major planning battles' mentioned in the articles...


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Worstpigeon wrote:
temene wrote:
Ten 3 bed houses in Ballinasloe costs €1.7m
http://connachttribune.ie/residents-cam ... using-300/

I wonder how much of that goes on having to fight the sort of 'major planning battles' mentioned in the articles...

None. Those battles cost the taxpayers extra.
There is a serious nimbyism and 'affect on existing property values' issue in this country.
Still €170k per house seems excessive in a town of 7,000.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Does seem high. Is this just what it costs to build houses to a decent standard now? I can understand council houses costing more per unit than private, though, because the council has them for the long run; they have an interest in them not falling apart in 10 years. Whereas a private developer doesn't really; not their problem.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:37 pm 
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There are all sorts of little costs to building a house compared to 20 never mind 50 years ago.

For example my plumber told me recently that any newly-fitted gas hob needs a mains-wired CO detector nearby now.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:26 pm 
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It cost €3,870,808 to buy 23 apartments in Galway.
~€168k per flat - 3x1-beds, 14x2-beds & 6x3-beds. Though I think renovation and finishing works cost extra
http://www.thejournal.ie/galway-housing ... 2-May2017/


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:01 pm 
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temene wrote:
There is a serious nimbyism and 'affect on existing property values' issue in this country.
Still €170k per house seems excessive in a town of 7,000.


How much of the oft quoted planning delays are accounted for by several cycles of arm-chancing. It has certainly been a factor in some cases I have seen. In one case once a reasonable scheme (e.g not too close to boundaries/not too high near neighbouring houses or with penthouse balconies to rear of gardens) no further objections arose.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:26 am 
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Mr Murphy will on Monday announce he has approved the construction of a further 70 rapid-delivery houses at three locations in Dublin city with a budget of over €15 million.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/rapid-build-homes-key-to-social-housing-says-eoghan-murphy-1.3171737

€215k per unit. Presumably land already owned by DCC.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:27 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
There are all sorts of little costs to building a house compared to 20 never mind 50 years ago.

For example my plumber told me recently that any newly-fitted gas hob needs a mains-wired CO detector nearby now.
From my reading of the Building Regulations (Part J), this is not actually true.

While the definition of 'Heat Producing Appliance' does include cookers, the regulations with regards Carbon Monoxide detectors specifically excludes them. Sure, fit a battery operated CO detector near by if you want, but there is no requirement to have it hard-wired from what I can see in the regulations.
Quote:
1.5.2 Carbon monoxide alarms: Where a new or replacement open-flued or flueless combustion appliance, not designed solely for cooking purposes, is installed in a dwelling, a carbon monoxide (CO) alarm should be provided:
(a) in the room where the appliance is located,
and
(b) either inside each bedroom or, within 5 m (16 ft.) of the bedroom door, measured along the path of the corridor.

Never trust plumbers. I would always provide a hardwired CO alarm as part of a Fire alarm system in renovations/new builds. That makes good sense.


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