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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:11 am 
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Interesting, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:38 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

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mightyz wrote:
sorehead wrote:
A builder who could build 1000 houses in one go in one site could get massive savings due to the scale.

But there isn't any builder in the country who builds at that scale.

We are not living on Mars. If Irish, Spanish or even Chinese can build in Poland.. why not here?

oh ye I forgot that most of land here is kept by few at little or no cost..


Therein lies the rub....

On another thread we were discussing the ideological bias that has underpinned much of the legal thinking related to individual versus collective rights, with the consensus being that western legal practice has in recent decades tended toward an interpretation that has elevated individual rights over those of the collective (wider society). It could be argued that much of what appears to be the current change in political mood across many societies is, at least on some level, a re-appraisal of the relationship between those two competing sets of rights ie individual v collective.

Within the context of a wholly dysfunctional market for shelter (based as it is on the sacrosanct right of the individual to acquire and retain land/property even when use is not made of it) that has quite clearly failed to deliver what its supposed to over a period of decades, IMO theres a strong argument for a similar re-appraisal of the rights of all involved.

In other words, in the same way that we balance the right of an Islamic State operative not to be tortured should he be returned to Algeria against the collective right of the Irish State/people to protect itself against such persons, surely Irish society (based on the past 20 years of dysfunctionality) has the right to similarly balance the rights of one person to retain large tracts of land or large amounts of vacant properties versus the rights of broader Irish society to ensure that its members have access to shelter....

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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:07 am 
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Dublin City Council splashes €480k to buy ­luxury two-bed apartment for social housing
DCC confirmed it has agreed to pay €480k to developers for a two-bed apartment.
It is understood the Council has purchased 19 apartments in Marianella, Rathgar, in total.
Under planning laws, developers of projects with 10+ units are required to set aside 10% of homes for social housing, a piece of legislation known as Part V.
But the local authority is obliged to pay for it — and politicians last night questioned whether it provides value for money for the taxpayer.


Nuts!
Wonder what the cost of the purchased 19 flats is?


Further it says that
DCC has agreed to purchase 224 units from developers to be used as social housing so far this year.The average cost of a two-bed home under Part V was €270,000, while €480,000 was the most expensive agreed by DCC.
...
When local authorities build social housing themselves, it costs on average €190,456 for a two-bed home.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:09 pm 
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temene wrote:
Dublin City Council splashes €480k to buy ­luxury two-bed apartment for social housing
DCC confirmed it has agreed to pay €480k to developers for a two-bed apartment.
It is understood the Council has purchased 19 apartments in Marianella, Rathgar, in total.
Under planning laws, developers of projects with 10+ units are required to set aside 10% of homes for social housing, a piece of legislation known as Part V.
But the local authority is obliged to pay for it — and politicians last night questioned whether it provides value for money for the taxpayer.


Nuts!
Wonder what the cost of the purchased 19 flats is?


Further it says that
DCC has agreed to purchase 224 units from developers to be used as social housing so far this year.The average cost of a two-bed home under Part V was €270,000, while €480,000 was the most expensive agreed by DCC.
...
When local authorities build social housing themselves, it costs on average €190,456 for a two-bed home.

Do you have a source for that figure?

In particular does it include the cost of land, development levies and Vat. I believe it is always good to compare like with like :)


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:20 pm 
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I read it in De Sun, so it must be true!
and they got it from Dublin Inquirer - Is the Government at risk of overpaying for social housing?

Govt figures on building social housing from scratch costs are on page 1 of thread


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:30 pm 
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€2.5m for 10 new social houses to be built in Connemara
8x 2bed and 2x 3bed units. €250k per unit. Hmmm.
http://connachttribune.ie/2-5-million-e ... l-housing/


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:25 pm 
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Some recent stories from the Irish Times:


An extra €10 million is needed to rebuild the 1960s social housing flat complex at Dominick Street in Dublin, which is more than a year behind in its development, according to new information from Dublin City Council.
Former minister for housing Simon Coveney had in June last year allocated €22 million for the regeneration of the 1960s flat complex which faces the new Cross City Luas line, just off Parnell Street in the north inner city.
Work was to start in autumn 2016 with residents due to move in to their new homes early next year. However, work has yet to begin on the 72 apartments.


€32m for 72 apartments or approx €450k per unit on land that DCC already owns.



The largest developer in the new town of Cherrywood in south Dublin is seeking more than ¤41 million from Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown Council for 126 social housing apartments, costing up to ¤442,000 each.
Hines Ireland has priced the apartments, which under law it must provide to the council at a discount, at more than ¤243,000 for a one-bedroom apartment, just over ¤358,500 for a two-bed, and ¤442,000 for a three-bed.



An average costof €325k per unit. Please note that these are discounted prices, which means (fuzzily) that the developer must take a lower profit and must price the land at original use.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:18 am 
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Historic Dublin block to be redeveloped to house homeless
Townsend Street complex will provide permanent homes to 18 homeless adults

The 18 final units will be allocated to single people, the largest group on the council’s housing waiting list .

The trust, has been given State funding of €1.7 million for the redevelopment.


So almost €100k a unit just for refurbishment.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
Historic Dublin block to be redeveloped to house homeless
Townsend Street complex will provide permanent homes to 18 homeless adults

The 18 final units will be allocated to single people, the largest group on the council’s housing waiting list .

The trust, has been given State funding of €1.7 million for the redevelopment.


So almost €100k a unit just for refurbishment.


refurbishment is probably an understatement - are they keeping any more than the facade? The equivalent block down the road has trees growing out of it and is due to be demolished completely.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:26 am 
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Maybe not. But they still don't have to worry about an exterior structure, planning permission, utility connections, etc, that a new build would have to pay for


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:27 pm 
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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... -1.3342289

Families in emergency housing ‘may be gaming the system’

Quote:
Dublin City Council continues to prioritise homeless applicants. Up to October of this year, 43 per cent of new tenancies in the city went to homeless people.


Wait 10+ years in a below standard rental accomodation on rent relief or live in a hotel for a few months with your kids and jump the queue...


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:32 pm 
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TheJackal wrote:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/families-in-emergency-housing-may-be-gaming-the-system-1.3342289
Families in emergency housing ‘may be gaming the system’
Wait 10+ years in a below standard rental accomodation on rent relief or live in a hotel for a few months with your kids and jump the queue...

Ah that is totally unfair. That comes from FG appointee Conor Skehan who has form (a special thread) in viewing citizens as muck.


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:48 pm 
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He may have form but that does not mean he is wrong.

Does anybody believe none of the families in homeless accommodation are gaming the system?


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Luan wrote:
He may have form but that does not mean he is wrong.

Does anybody believe none of the families in homeless accommodation are gaming the system?


I dont think that anyone being totally honest would say that this is the case, but i dont doubt that there will be a few along to express their outrage at your assertion.

we have generations of career spongers in ireland, they know the system better than anyone


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 Post subject: Re: The Social Housing Costs Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Poor people gaming the system: spongers.
Rich people gaming the system: sensibly exploiting legal loopholes.

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