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 Post subject: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:29 pm 
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The Christian Brothers have entered into an agreement to sell more than 70% of the grounds of Clonkeen College, Deansgrange, (supposedly to the building group Durkans), for residential development. This will leave the school without even 1 full size pitch for their numerous and successful GAA and soccer teams, and right towards the end of a large building project at the school that will allow a 10% increase in numbers.

News of this development came as a complete shock to staff, board of management, pupils, parents and local residents, some of whom were in tears at at public meeting called at the school last night to hear about and launch opposition to this development .

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-at-deansgrange-school-feel-betrayed-over-sale-of-pitches-1.3088285

The proposal appears to be that the CB sell 7.5 acres to Durkans for €17m, use €10m of the money towards the abuse redress scheme, give €1.4 million to the school as a sop towards the loss of their pitches (which the school had recently spent €0.5m on to improve after fundraising), and pocket the rest. The school is left with 3.5 acres, which seems ok, but in fact counts areas at the back of the school already developed as hard courts etc. It has also been suggested that 5 acres is required for a proper full size pitch and surrounds.

As many have pointed out, the pupils of this generation and future generations will now be paying for the CB's historic abuse with the loss of their playing field which will be gone for ever, if this scheme is allowed to occur. A direct quotation from the CB, in an emergency meeting with the school, was that they had taken "no consideration" of the school and pupils in deciding on the sale.

This proposal brings into sharp relief the treachery and conniving of the CB to avoid their responsibilities to the State, to the school and to the local community and the abject greed of Durkans to even contemplate building on such a site. It also suggests the possible involvement of the Department of Education in sanctioning this move according to some reports, and this scheme could set a dangerous precedent for building on other privately owned lands that are in public use.

According to reports, the school, parents and local residents are launching a major lobbying campaign to oppose this scheme. Let's hope that they succeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Location: Cathair na dTreabh
It's private property. The Christian Brothers can sell it if they wish.
If the parents feel so strongly about it, then they can set up their own school or buy the land.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:50 pm 
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itll be blackrock when durkan start developing 8DD


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:54 pm 
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temene wrote:
It's private property. The Christian Brothers can sell it if they wish.
If the parents feel so strongly about it, then they can set up their own school or buy the land.


Well apart from the obvious difficulty for parents in raising €17 or 18m to buy the land, they weren't presented with an option to buy the land, or even knew that the land was going to be sold, due to the secret negotiations with Durkans. But more pertinently the Christian Brothers had stated on several occasions in the past that the playing fields would be available to the school as long as the school existed so it was never even a question in the minds of the school or parents. The school had raised half a million to improve the pitches on that basis in the last 2-3 years. This is an unprecedented situation, and a religious order, funded in the past by public donations and with a non-profit charter, is not exactly a "private" organisation.

Also the school is currently in the final stages of a large €multi-million extension so talking about setting up a new school is nonsensical and its a public school by the way.


Last edited by onioneater on Fri May 19, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:58 pm 
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I would have loved to have gone to a school that was denied the opportunity to inflict sport on me. :(

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People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.


Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:03 pm 
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cyrusir wrote:
itll be blackrock when durkan start developing 8DD


That would be true! And in fact the formal postal address for Deansgrange is Deansgrange, Blackrock.

But I think Durkans may have bitten off more than they can chew in the opposition that they are going to see to this move.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:50 pm 
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It's almost as if the state should own and run its own schools...


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:31 pm 
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onioneater wrote:
The Christian Brothers have entered into an agreement to sell more than 70% of the grounds of Clonkeen College, Deansgrange... As many have pointed out, the pupils of this generation and future generations will now be paying for the CB's historic abuse with the loss of their playing field which will be gone for ever, if this scheme is allowed to occur.

Actually, they will be paying for Bertie Aherne's historic abuse. The redress board was set up with public money, no obligation on religious organisations to contribute to it, and no adversarial legal process for claimants. Basically, anybody could say they were in an institution and claim €60,000. One and a half billion euro and a financial crash later, the government is now trying to smear the religious organisations as not holding up their end of an agreement they never entered into. In the face of this unbelievable folly and the total inability of the religious organisations to defend themselves, my personal opinion is that they should tell the State to go fuck itself, however that's clearly not what the public are calling for judging by the Vincent's hospital outcry. On the other hand, it's a bit rich to be whinging about redress board contributions and also crying over the loss of assets that will go to pay for them.

onioneater wrote:
This proposal brings into sharp relief the treachery and conniving of the CB to avoid their responsibilities to the State

How's that, exactly?

onioneater wrote:
According to reports, the school, parents and local residents are launching a major lobbying campaign to oppose this scheme. Let's hope that they succeed.

I'd prefer to see them realise the illogic of their position.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Seems to me like it is a sly move by the CB to intimate that if the State goes after them, they will have to sell public assets.
Locals scream foul, the state backs off and everyone is a winner right?


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:58 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
Basically, anybody could say they were in an institution and claim €60,000.


That is a complete lie and unconscionably offensive to thousands of people who suffered horrors that most of us can not even imagine.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:03 pm 
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dubrov wrote:
Seems to me like it is a sly move by the CB to intimate that if the State goes after them, they will have to sell public assets.
Locals scream foul, the state backs off and everyone is a winner right?

Eh, last week people were screaming for orders to sell their land backs to pay compensation? Do they have other assets?


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:14 pm 
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There is also the following.

The pitches are currently used exclusively by teenage boys for field sports, most of which they will not pursue when they have left school.

They are also vacant - but unavailable for local use presumably - for 95% of daylight hours.

Is this the socially optimal use of the land?


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:29 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
onioneater wrote:
The Christian Brothers have entered into an agreement to sell more than 70% of the grounds of Clonkeen College, Deansgrange... As many have pointed out, the pupils of this generation and future generations will now be paying for the CB's historic abuse with the loss of their playing field which will be gone for ever, if this scheme is allowed to occur.

Actually, they will be paying for Bertie Aherne's historic abuse. The redress board was set up with public money, no obligation on religious organisations to contribute to it, and no adversarial legal process for claimants. Basically, anybody could say they were in an institution and claim €60,000. One and a half billion euro and a financial crash later, the government is now trying to smear the religious organisations as not holding up their end of an agreement they never entered into. In the face of this unbelievable folly and the total inability of the religious organisations to defend themselves, my personal opinion is that they should tell the State to go fuck itself, however that's clearly not what the public are calling for judging by the Vincent's hospital outcry. On the other hand, it's a bit rich to be whinging about redress board contributions and also crying over the loss of assets that will go to pay for them.

onioneater wrote:
This proposal brings into sharp relief the treachery and conniving of the CB to avoid their responsibilities to the State

How's that, exactly?


I'll ignore the first part of your post which sounds very much like an apologia for institutional abuse. Many would say that they got off lightly.

Treachery - the CBs told the school on repeated occasions that they will have the use of the lands "as long as the school remains a school".

Based on this committment:

    the State, ie taxpayers, have poured €10m into a school extension to allow take on more pupils, assuming there would be outdoor PE/sports facilities available to complement indoor facilities

    the school and parents raise €0.5 million and carry out extensive remedial work on the pitches. That's a lot of bag-packing.
    The school builds a special needs unit and invests in some outdoor sports surfaces for these that will be in danger of being ripped up again to restore some area of grass pitch if all the existing grass area is to go

Then without talking to the board of management, staff or parent the CBs announce the sale as a fait accompli.

Conniving

The CBS seem to have worked on this deal in secret with the developers and Department of Education. Reports state that of the 18m sale proceeds, 10m go the State for redress, 1.4 m as a sop to the school and the rest into the back pocket of the CBs. The deal is also in breach of the CB's own charter to put the interests of students first.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:35 pm 
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dubrov wrote:
Seems to me like it is a sly move by the CB to intimate that if the State goes after them, they will have to sell public assets.
Locals scream foul, the state backs off and everyone is a winner right?


This thought has crossed my mind. However suddenly announcing this sale coming up to exam time, and when the school is nearing the end of a long building project, and to the tears of 13 and 14 year olds losing their GAA and soocer pitches, would mark a new low in the negotiating tactic of a "Christian" organisation.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:43 pm 
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slasher wrote:
dubrov wrote:
Seems to me like it is a sly move by the CB to intimate that if the State goes after them, they will have to sell public assets.
Locals scream foul, the state backs off and everyone is a winner right?

Eh, last week people were screaming for orders to sell their land backs to pay compensation? Do they have other assets?



I assume that the CBs have lots of empty monasteries/office buildings that they could sell before selling school pitches. And cut down on their junkets to Rome etc.

In fact Clonkeen College would have no objection to losing a portion of their lands, if all CB-owned schools shared the load. But not to stand for more than 70% of the grounds of one school to be taken. Actually I now think that the school building footprint is about 2 acres, leaving the school only 1.5ac to cover all outdoor areas including paths and yards. There will be no room for any reasonably sized outdoor pitch. This in a school planned to cater for 600 teenage boys on their premises.


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