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 Post subject: The madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:51 pm 
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it has'nt taken long for the talk of price rises to bring a few sellers on to the market with big price aspirations

surely if these prices are 'fair value' as some on here would have you believe, then it'll be impossible for anyone(couple) to ever buy a family home who earns less than a combined 100k+ and has a big deposit/inheritance....in very average parts of dublin

41 templeville rd, templeogue
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochu ... 6w/1980154
4 bed, busy road near templogue for 585k

11 grange wood,rathfarnham
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochu ... 14/1983932
550k for a 4 bed on the edge of rathfarnham, touching ballinteer

76 kimmage road west
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochu ... 12/1973996
550k for a 4 bed on a busy road in kimmage, touching Crumlin

55 kimmage road west
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochu ... 12/1797235
and 525k for a 3 bed beside the kimmage 4 bed above


Last edited by FreeFallin on Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Feb 4, 2012
Posts: 78
100% agree with you. These prices are totally crazy for what I would call "average" houses.
Certainly seems that crazy vendors, egged on by crazy estate agents, are doing their upmost to talk up the market. But on the whole when your realistic about it, these price rises really have no support to keep rising, or for staying high for that matter. With 14%+ unemployment, mass emigration, and Europe (including Ireland, believe it or not) still in recession this can only go one way.
And IMHO prices will drop further and quicker than before. 8DD


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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:18 pm 
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Glenmorgan wrote:
100% agree with you. These prices are totally crazy for what I would call "average" houses.
Certainly seems that crazy vendors, egged on by crazy estate agents, are doing their upmost to talk up the market. But on the whole when your realistic about it, these price rises really have no support to keep rising, or for staying high for that matter. With 14%+ unemployment, mass emigration, and Europe (including Ireland, believe it or not) still in recession this can only go one way.
And IMHO prices will drop further and quicker than before. 8DD



FWIT the average house in Dublin is for sale at sub €300k it just that most pinsters don't want to live in the average house.

It might be in Clondalkin BD


Last edited by Landlord on Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Posts: 2550
Location: NWUK
FreeFallin wrote:
it has'nt taken long for the talk of price rises to bring a few sellers on to the market with big price aspirations

surely if these prices are 'fair value' as some on here would have you believe, then it'll be impossible for anyone(couple) to ever buy a family home who earns less than a combined 100k+ and has a big deposit/inheritance....in very average parts of dublin

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochu ... 12/1797235
and 525k for a 3 bed beside the kimmage 4 bed above


Only looked at the two Kimmage ones.

Based on that, these are not 'average' houses. If this is the notion of an average house in Ireland, the problem is with you.

Granted 525k is a little on the high side for a 3 bedder but these are good houses in good locations, appear to be in good condition, have garages and large gardens.

I'd price the 4 bedder at 430-450 and the 3 bedder around 390-420.
Competition would push this higher as youre then paying to secure your own fantasy against someone elses; pay a premium to 'have it now'.

So, assuming a finance free market, theres still a way to come down yet.
But not that much.

The only thing thats still in a bubble are very average peoples notions of what is actually average.


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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Apr 4, 2010
Posts: 4699
Landlord wrote:
Glenmorgan wrote:
100% agree with you. These prices are totally crazy for what I would call "average" houses.
Certainly seems that crazy vendors, egged on by crazy estate agents, are doing their upmost to talk up the market. But on the whole when your realistic about it, these price rises really have no support to keep rising, or for staying high for that matter. With 14%+ unemployment, mass emigration, and Europe (including Ireland, believe it or not) still in recession this can only go one way.
And IMHO prices will drop further and quicker than before. 8DD



FWIT the average house in Dublin is for sale at sub €300k it just that most pinsters don't want to live in the average house.

It might be in Clondalkin BD


But how many of the residents of Clondalkin have an average salary of €70K? That's roughly what you're going to need for a €300K house to be affordable, given ordinary levels of taxation and interest rates over a 20 year mortgage.

BTW, Clondalkin isn't really average. Half of it is a smack-infested warzone.

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Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Madness of Crowds wrote:
BTW, Clondalkin isn't really average. Half of it is a smack-infested warzone.


There are some very rough elements in Clondalkin. Particularly rough. I'd rather live in Co. Leitrim. And I'm a townie by nature.

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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:46 pm 
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These are not average houses for Dublin and very definitely not nationally.

Forget your notions about their absolute value and consider relative value. They are without a doubt within the top 5% of houses nationwide. And what you've said is that only the highest earning 5% of households (>100k) can afford them. This kind of makes sense.

You may argue that prices and wages have further to fall and I might not disagree with you. But these houses are always going to be the preserve of those with high incomes and/or levels of accumulated wealth.


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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:52 pm 
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Joined: May 24, 2011
Posts: 514
Location: Trapped in the family home
Skippy 3 wrote:
They are without a doubt within the top 5% of houses nationwide. And what you've said is that only the highest earning 5% of households (>100k) can afford them. This kind of makes sense.


That's strecting it a bit. If the top 5% of houses and earners are based in places like templeogue, rathfarnham and Kimmage, then who the hell lives in ballsbridge, rathgar, howth, dalkey?

If I'm on 100k a year 5 years on from an insane housing bubble collapse I'm going set my sights higher than Kimmage and Rathfarnham. Call me Mr Ambitious if you will.


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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
These are not average houses for Dublin and very definitely not nationally.

Forget your notions about their absolute value and consider relative value. They are without a doubt within the top 5% of houses nationwide. And what you've said is that only the highest earning 5% of households (>100k) can afford them. This kind of makes sense.

You may argue that prices and wages have further to fall and I might not disagree with you. But these houses are always going to be the preserve of those with high incomes and/or levels of accumulated wealth.

You must be joking! Kimmage! No, those houses are overpriced, as is the country.It would be funny if it weren'tso utterly deluded,retrograde,and counter- productive.
Don't worry namscama those prices are unsustainable.Of that I have no doubt at all. the delusion goes on.
When anything remotley related to property, is in the main evening news, day in ,day out you realise the level of this delusion.


Last edited by Ivor Lot on Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:06 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
These are not average houses for Dublin and very definitely not nationally.

Forget your notions about their absolute value and consider relative value. They are without a doubt within the top 5% of houses nationwide. And what you've said is that only the highest earning 5% of households (>100k) can afford them. This kind of makes sense.

You may argue that prices and wages have further to fall and I might not disagree with you. But these houses are always going to be the preserve of those with high incomes and/or levels of accumulated wealth.


They are semi-detached houses with nice décor and a bit of an extension out the back, built on tiny pockets of land.

I'd class them in the mid-to-upper average range at very most. In any other part of Ireland, they'd be lower average.

Gilding a sow's ear doesn't render it a silk purse.

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Last edited by doubleglaze on Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:08 pm 
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I appreciate these are not in Ballsbridge or Ranelagh. But they are considerably larger and in better condition than a lot of what is on the marketn in D4&6.

I have never seen a distribution of house values in Ireland. I never said I wasnt speculating :D But I would say the median value dwelling in this country is a 3-bed semi from 2002 built a mile or so from the centre of a town in Kildare. And these houses are substantially more desirable in my view.

Their absolute value may still be too high but in relative terms they are not unreasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Location: SthDub
3 of them are also on 'main' roads with a hell of a lot of traffic

granted, they may not be 'average' houses as such, some of them are fine gaffs IMO....but to Skippy...you need to get out of Dublin a bit more! They're are some serious pads built all over the middle-of-nowhere;s where 2,000sq ft would be medium sized. I don't think these 4 are anywhere near top 5% nationally
And as Namascamca says, if you were earning over 100k per annum are these the type of areas you'd be aiming for

They're fine gaffs as I said above, but I just think the prices.....at roughly 17 times the average national wage...are mad and are showing a sudden jump even on what were already mad prices in these areas of a few months ago.

I really think it'll tell a story if these 4 sell quickly...and if the Database shows they went near or above asking


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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:18 pm 
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doubleglaze wrote:

They are semi-detached houses with nice décor and a bit of an extension out the back, built on tiny pockets of land.

I'd class them in the mid-to-upper average range at very most. In any other part of Ireland, they'd be lower average.

Guilding a sow's ear doesn't render it a silk purse.


Ther are 72k properties on Daft with a price. 2.4k are asking above €500k, about 3%.

You may think they are nothing special and I half agree. They would be far less noteworthy in the US where average sqare footage is larger. But the fact is that they are well abokve average size houses in a country where average floor space is small. Therefore, relative to alternatives, they will command a higher value.


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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:30 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
.but to Skippy...you need to get out of Dublin a bit more! They're are some serious pads built all over the middle-of-nowhere;s where 2,000sq ft would be medium sized. I don't think these 4 are anywhere near top 5% nationally


Point taken. There are a lot of very large bubble-era one-offs dotted all over the midlands just as nice as these. But most of them are nowhere near jobs that can sustain a >100k household income anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: the madness is returning
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Nov 1, 2011
Posts: 30
The real madness is here:
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochu ... in/1934243

The original asking price was 475K.
Then it was dropped to 415K and it was an offer of 400K according to an agent.

The condition of the house is very poor.
All extensions do not make any sense and should be demolished and redone.
Looks like owners did not have enough money to make things right, so did everything in very cheap way.
As the result the internal layout is awful.

I would say another 150-200K are required to make it right.
As the result - the total cost will be around 600K.

600K for MID OF TERRACE house is MADNESS
Of course - De jure - it is a semi-detached house.
But De facto - it is a mid of terrace (if the house on the right extended over garage).


I just don't understand how someone can offer 400K for this.
Agents can try to push prices up, but it is buyers who make offer at the end of a day.

Who offered 400K should have a lot of money and do not worry about the total cost at all (but I really doubt it as it is possible to buy much better house for that sort of money),
Or they just did not think everything through - as a lot of buyers didn't do before.

I am actually quite happy that banks are not lending a lot now and applying a lot of checks before giving money out.

Otherwise I am afraid to think what would going on as some people will never learn.


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